Should I Retake? Forum

[Moneytrees]

.

[BigZuck]

All I saw was 3.6/163, didn't read the rest

Yes.

[TheSpanishMain]

You have a decent job you enjoy, you're confident you can improve, and you have a respectable GPA.

Yes, you should absolutely retake. WF is a decent school in the right circumstances, assuming you have NC ties and the desire to stay there long term. Since you describe living in NC as less than ideal, I assume that ain't you.

If you want to stay in SoCal, retake for UCLA/USC. Hell, maybe a shot at Berkeley. In the meantime, save money, make legal connections, study, and enjoy yourself.

[Moneytrees]

You have a decent job you enjoy, you're confident you can improve, and you have a respectable GPA.

Yes, you should absolutely retake. WF is a decent school in the right circumstances, assuming you have NC ties and the desire to stay there long term. Since you describe living in NC as less than ideal, I assume that ain't you.

If you want to stay in SoCal, retake for UCLA/USC. Hell, maybe a shot at Berkeley. In the meantime, save money, make legal connections, study, and enjoy yourself.

.

[Tiago Splitter]

Wake Forest means nothing to you, and it shouldn't. With the number of LSAT takers continuing to decline, there will be lots of other schools with placement stats just as bad as Wake Forest's willing to dish out a full ride.

And please understand that you aren't turning down a lot of money. It's not as if Wake is handing you a check for $130,000. You are being given a substantial discount off of an absurdly high sticker price that bears no relation to reality. Just treat this as if Wake's tuition were 10k a year. And with debt financed living expenses you absolutely will be graduating with debt from Wake, and plenty of it.

You only go to law school once. Retake and put yourself in the best position to do it right.

[CanadianWolf]

WFU is unlikely to get you back to SoCal, you are content staying at your current job for another year & you've only taken the LSAT once, therefore retaking the LSAT appears to be the better route for you. However, if you wanted to remain in North Carolina or the Tidewater region, then taking the scholarship at WFU would be a reasonable course of action. In short, retake.

[TheSpanishMain]

Wake Forest means nothing to you, and it shouldn't. With the number of LSAT takers continuing to decline, there will be lots of other schools with placement stats just as bad as Wake Forest's willing to dish out a full ride.

Not to nitpick, but WF actually doesn't have poor placement stats. Nowhere near the T14, but decent in the context of other regional schools. If OP was from NC, wanted to stay there, had a full ride and wasn't BigLaw or bust, then it wouldn't be a bad option.

But anyway, I agree with your overall point. You'll be able to get the same offers next year. This isn't some magical vanishing opportunity you must pounce on.

[Mack.Hambleton]

All I saw was 3.6/163, didn't read the rest

Yes.

[PrideandGlory1776]

Yes re-take you will not regret it.

[Moneytrees]

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Just to clarify (I probably should have added this in the OP), I am not currently living in Socal. I'm actually working in Connecticut. I have strong family ties on the East coast as well. I'm not completely opposed to living in North Carolina if I were to graduate without any debt, but there's something that just doesn't feel right about it. Still, it's tough to turn down a free law school education.

As some of you have said, Wake Forest actually doesn't have poor job placement. It's right in line with most schools between 25-40.

[TheSpanishMain]

As some of you have said, Wake Forest actually doesn't have poor job placement. It's right in line with most schools between 25-40.

I only think it's a good idea for someone with NC ties who wants to remain in NC long term. Sounds like that isn't you.

Where do you want to end up long term? The answer is still almost certainly retake, but this would at least help you figure out where you should target.

[Mack.Hambleton]

To put it in perspective, four more points on your LSAT and you're at Cornell's median.

[Tiago Splitter]

Just as good, just as bad. Glass half full, glass half empty.

Anyway, OP what do you want to do with a law degree?

[northwood]

Where do you want to practice? It sounds like NC is not it- so WF should not be considered. Figure out where you want to practice, and what schools you need to target ( and the scores to get in) and retake. Even if you retake, you may decide not to go, which would be fine. But I would not quit a job you like, move long distance without knowing where my target geographic market is located.

So, while a re-take is a good option, you also need to reconsider your application strategy.

[Moneytrees]

Biglaw is what I'm aiming for. Clearly, Wake Forest is not a great option for that particular path. But I also am fearful of being saddled with debt AND miss out on Biglaw, which happens to quite a number of students at 25 schools.

If I were to score, say, 4 or 5 points higher on the LSAT, T14 still isn't a lock. So I would probably have to enroll in a school where Biglaw is far from a guarantee and incur significant debt to boot. Obviously, the ideal situation would be a 170+ retake and a decent scholarship at a T14, but I'm trying to be realistic in projecting my performance.

If I get into a school such as USC, GW or Boston University and have to pay 30K+ a year, I'm not too sure that's a better choice than Wake Forest on a full ride. Sure, I would be able to practice in an area where I have ties, but I'm not sure if that is worth the price of tremendous debt. This is the biggest reason why I'm considering going to WF.

[ManoftheHour]

All I saw was 3.6/163, didn't read the rest

Yes.

[ManoftheHour]

I believe I can improve my score, but my fear is that it will only marginally improve (say, a 164 or 165) and I still get locked out of the T14 and lose my financial offer from WF.

3.6/165 gets you 60k at Notre Dame, which isn't the best option for SoCal but it places a hell lot more into SoCal than Wake Forest, which does nothing.

Also, there was a poster that got into Cornell ED with a 3.65/165.

[northwood]

Biglaw is what I'm aiming for. Clearly, Wake Forest is not a great option for that particular path. But I also am fearful of being saddled with debt AND miss out on Biglaw, which happens to quite a number of students at 25 schools.

If I were to score, say, 4 or 5 points higher on the LSAT, T14 still isn't a lock. So I would probably have to enroll in a school where Biglaw is far from a guarantee and incur significant debt to boot. Obviously, the ideal situation would be a 170+ retake and a decent scholarship at a T14, but I'm trying to be realistic in projecting my performance.

If I get into a school such as USC, GW or Boston University and have to pay 30K+ a year, I'm not too sure that's a better choice than Wake Forest on a full ride. Sure, I would be able to practice in an area where I have ties, but I'm not sure if that is worth the price of tremendous debt. This is the biggest reason why I'm considering going to WF.

what geographic area do you want to work in?

[Moneytrees]

Biglaw is what I'm aiming for. Clearly, Wake Forest is not a great option for that particular path. But I also am fearful of being saddled with debt AND miss out on Biglaw, which happens to quite a number of students at 25 schools.

If I were to score, say, 4 or 5 points higher on the LSAT, T14 still isn't a lock. So I would probably have to enroll in a school where Biglaw is far from a guarantee and incur significant debt to boot. Obviously, the ideal situation would be a 170+ retake and a decent scholarship at a T14, but I'm trying to be realistic in projecting my performance.

If I get into a school such as USC, GW or Boston University and have to pay 30K+ a year, I'm not too sure that's a better choice than Wake Forest on a full ride. Sure, I would be able to practice in an area where I have ties, but I'm not sure if that is worth the price of tremendous debt. This is the biggest reason why I'm considering going to WF.

what geographic area do you want to work in?

Ideally the West coast or the East coast. But because I was born in Italy and don't necessarily consider anywhere in the US to be my "home", cost of attendance is almost as big of a factor as location for me.

[BigZuck]

You're probably not getting big law unless you go to a T14

If you want big law, retake

[Moneytrees]

You're probably not getting big law unless you go to a T14

If you want big law, retake

Right.

[Yanky91]

Should I retake?

Because you are looking for biglaw and don't want to live in NC I would say retake. WF is a good school, and the COL is peanuts in Winston-Salem. If you accept you will end up with less than 30k in debt which is amazing from a school like WF. However, it is not likely that you will land a biglaw job (which shouldn't be a problem because you will have a minuscule amount of debt). In addition, half the class stays in NC..... so, yeah..... retake for better chance at biglaw is my $.02.

[Moneytrees]

Should I retake?

Because you are looking for biglaw and don't want to live in NC I would say retake. WF is a good school, and the COL is peanuts in Winston-Salem. If you accept you will end up with less than 30k in debt which is amazing from a school like WF. However, it is not likely that you will land a biglaw job (which shouldn't be a problem because you will have a minuscule amount of debt). In addition, half the class stays in NC..... so, yeah..... retake for better chance at biglaw is my $.02.

Thanks for the advice.

[Paul Campos]

Paralegals who like their current jobs need to be especially cautious about applying to law school. A particularly perverse example of the JD Disadvantage effect is that paralegals who get JDs often find it's impossible to get a job as a paralegal after they've gotten law degrees, no matter how excellent their work experience was prior to getting the JD. So they end up incurring three years of very significant opportunity costs and find themselves in a worse position than they were before they went to law school, even without taking into account the debt incurred.

[Moneytrees]

Paralegals who like their current jobs need to be especially cautious about applying to law school. A particularly perverse example of the JD Disadvantage effect is that paralegals who get JDs often find it's impossible to get a job as a paralegal after they've gotten law degrees, no matter how excellent their work experience was prior to getting the JD. So they end up incurring three years of very significant opportunity costs and find themselves in a worse position than they were before they went to law school, even without taking into account the debt incurred.

I definitely don't want to be a paralegal in the long run. I've always wanted to be an attorney and my family on the east coast own one of the most respected mid sized firms in Connecticut. I've grown up wanting to practice law and my job as a paralegal only confirms my passion for this line of work. I do agree with your point generally, but I am most definitely planning on attending law school.