. Forum

[mist4bison]

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[twenty]

One poster was dinged at Harvard (he had solidly Harvard numbers) for failing to complete his Ph.D. He ended up at Columbia, though, so hard to feel too sorry for him.

It's not the worst thing ever.

[patogordo]

If you've got a good reason you're probably fine. I've dropped out of like four different schools.

[A. Nony Mouse]

One poster was dinged at Harvard (he had solidly Harvard numbers) for failing to complete his Ph.D. He ended up at Columbia, though, so hard to feel too sorry for him.

It's not the worst thing ever.

I sort of wonder how much how far he was into the program made a difference. It looks a little different to leave grad school without the degree you went for if you leave in the first year/semester rather than after putting in a number of years. (IIRC, the poster you're referring to was pretty close to the end of their program, but I can't remember exactly who it is so I could be wrong.)

[BigZuck]

I know a TLSer who left a PhD program halfway through and he did as well or better than his numbers would indicate. Just gotta have a good explanation I guess. Also, he didn't have HYS numbers so no idea if they would have cared or not. He did get into multiple T14s though.

OP- I would definitely write an addendum.

[mist4bison]

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[Splitterverse]

I'm applying next cycle and am in a similar position. I had 4.0 GPA after completing all my coursework for my Master's, but I never wrote the thesis so I withdrew. I had become a stay-at-home dad and I just never got around to finishing. Not the best story, but it is what it is and I'm sure it would look better if I had followed through.

FWIW, I can't believe law schools would hold anything against a PhD student who didn't finish. The perseverance needed to get through law school pales in comparison.

[Clearly]

I know a TLSer who left a PhD program halfway through and he did as well or better than his numbers would indicate. Just gotta have a good explanation I guess. Also, he didn't have HYS numbers so no idea if they would have cared or not. He did get into multiple T14s though.

OP- I would definitely write an addendum.

Thank you, this is what I was wondering. I think that'll probably be the best choice. Plus if I end up quitting TFA, I can explain both in one addendum.

Quitting tfa and your masters at the same time is going to really raise eyebrows.

[cron1834]

FWIW, I can't believe law schools would hold anything against a PhD student who didn't finish. The perseverance needed to get through law school pales in comparison.

As a PhD quitter myself, I know lots of talented and successful people in my boat. I know people who had their mentor/professor split and leave them in the lurch with research, I know people who had children and prioritized family, and I know people (like me) who had funding run out and had to settle for a double-master's.

I just can't believe that with 3-4 years WE, two grad degrees, and a 3.9 at every level of schooling that I'm going to get dinged because of this.

[A. Nony Mouse]

FWIW, I can't believe law schools would hold anything against a PhD student who didn't finish. The perseverance needed to get through law school pales in comparison.

As a PhD quitter myself, I know lots of talented and successful people in my boat. I know people who had their mentor/professor split and leave them in the lurch with research, I know people who had children and prioritized family, and I know people (like me) who had funding run out and had to settle for a double-master's.

I just can't believe that with 3-4 years WE, two grad degrees, and a 3.9 at every level of schooling that I'm going to get dinged because of this.

Since I sort of brought this up before - I completely agree with both of you. I do think, though, that if you make through 6 years or so and stop, you may need a different explanation than if you stop after a couple of years/a master's, and I have a vague memory that the person that was mentioned had been that far along in their program. (Again, I may be misremembering, or I may be thinking of a different person than 20 is.) But I think it was much more likely to be an issue with how the person explained things than with leaving in itself.

[mist4bison]

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[Splitterverse]

FWIW, I can't believe law schools would hold anything against a PhD student who didn't finish. The perseverance needed to get through law school pales in comparison.

As a PhD quitter myself, I know lots of talented and successful people in my boat. I know people who had their mentor/professor split and leave them in the lurch with research, I know people who had children and prioritized family, and I know people (like me) who had funding run out and had to settle for a double-master's.

I just can't believe that with 3-4 years WE, two grad degrees, and a 3.9 at every level of schooling that I'm going to get dinged because of this.

I know. I'm (un)fortunate to come from a family of seven PhDs and five JDs so I really appreciate how hard it is to obtain a PhD by comparison and I don't think it's any big secret. I would think adcoms have to know the high level of difficulty and all the variables beyond the student's control in finishing.

[cron1834]

FWIW, I can't believe law schools would hold anything against a PhD student who didn't finish. The perseverance needed to get through law school pales in comparison.

As a PhD quitter myself, I know lots of talented and successful people in my boat. I know people who had their mentor/professor split and leave them in the lurch with research, I know people who had children and prioritized family, and I know people (like me) who had funding run out and had to settle for a double-master's.

I just can't believe that with 3-4 years WE, two grad degrees, and a 3.9 at every level of schooling that I'm going to get dinged because of this.

Since I sort of brought this up before - I completely agree with both of you. I do think, though, that if you make through 6 years or so and stop, you may need a different explanation than if you stop after a couple of years/a master's, and I have a vague memory that the person that was mentioned had been that far along in their program. (Again, I may be misremembering, or I may be thinking of a different person than 20 is.) But I think it was much more likely to be an issue with how the person explained things than with leaving in itself.

It's also likely that HYS can get away with selectivity that others can't. I think we agree that if you have a plausible reason to do something else, and more than a year or two left, most places shouldn't hurt you on these grounds ...

In my case, there's nothing anywhere in my transcripts that even indicates I was a PhD student! It just lists a bunch of courses and two master's degrees. Our program had a lot of people switch from PhD to MS tracks and vice-versa. It wasn't uncommon.

[midwest17]

I know. I'm (un)fortunate to come from a family of seven PhDs and five JDs so I really appreciate how hard it is to obtain a PhD by comparison and I don't think it's any big secret. I would think adcoms have to know the high level of difficulty and all the variables beyond the student's control in finishing.

But guys.

2. J.D. Degree - Ph.D. Degree Equivalency

WHEREAS, the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with the writing of a dissertation, the two degrees shall be considered as equivalent degrees for educational employment purposes;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that all appropriate persons be requested to eliminate any policy, or practice, existing within their jurisdiction which disparages legal education or promotes discriminatory employment practices against J.D. degree-holders who hold academic appointment in education institutions.

In all seriousness, I think you're right, but you shouldn't rely on adcomms knowing about the factors and drawing the right conclusions. This is definitely the sort of thing that warrants a well-written addendum. (And most applications will probably require an explanation anyways, in response to the interruption of education question.)

[A. Nony Mouse]

OMG fuck the ABA.

Also, OP, I think if you're leaving both the MA program and TFA for the same reason - family issues - rather than just ditching both because you decided they weren't for you for whatever reason, you'd probably have to explain, but I don't think it would be as big an issue. I mean, if you have to move away from where both those things are located, that's a good reason for not continuing.

[midwest17]

OMG fuck the ABA.

A dissertation is like, 1-2 semesters of work max, right?

[A. Nony Mouse]

OMG fuck the ABA.

A dissertation is like, 1-2 semesters of work max, right?

Yeah, clearly I did it wrong.