Subpar LSAT for clear first choice - any point in applying? Forum

[theycallmefoes]

LSAT: 167. GPA: 3.8. I'm not a URM, but I am a cultural minority (both parents are immigrants), so I am submitting a diversity statement. Solid PS and resume (in my opinion), double-major (philosophy and poli-sci), 2 honors theses/capstones, and very enthusiastic LORs (to the best of my knowledge).

NYU is my absolute first choice - I would give away all of my worldly possessions for a real chance at NYU. But that LSAT score (3rd attempt) will kill me, right? I'm submitting a "Why NYU" addendum, but is there anything else I can do to better my chances? Or should I just save my time and money and not even bother?

Also, UMich is in my top 5 - better odds, but still - worth applying?

[nothingtosee]

LSAT: 167. GPA: 3.8. I'm not a URM, but I am a cultural minority (both parents are immigrants), so I am submitting a diversity statement. Solid PS and resume (in my opinion), double-major (philosophy and poli-sci), 2 honors theses/capstones, and very enthusiastic LORs (to the best of my knowledge).

NYU is my absolute first choice - I would give away all of my worldly possessions for a real chance at NYU. But that LSAT score (3rd attempt) will kill me, right? I'm submitting a "Why NYU" addendum, but is there anything else I can do to better my chances? Or should I just save my time and money and not even bother?

Also, UMich is in my top 5 - better odds, but still - worth applying?

60% of NYU students are paying sticker...and you'd be one of them. Are you ok with taking out $275,000 in debt? Are your parents paying for you?



Michigan actually looks like your best bet, admissions and schollie wise.

If you're ok with shooting $25 or $100 into the abyss for a chance to attend your dream school for $275,00, go ahead and apply. You have almost no shot of admission, but YOLO.

The best thing you could do to increase chances would be sit out until you can take the LSAT again, then retake

[theycallmefoes]

60% of NYU students are paying sticker...and you'd be one of them. Are you ok with taking out $275,000 in debt? Are your parents paying for you?

Michigan actually looks like your best bet, admissions and schollie wise.

If you're ok with shooting $25 or $100 into the abyss for a chance to attend your dream school for $275,00, go ahead and apply. You have almost no shot of admission, but YOLO.

The best thing you could do to increase chances would be sit out until you can take the LSAT again, then retake

That's pretty much what I figured. Honestly, I would be willing to get the loans for NYU. Would they even look at my entire application, or would I just be tossed into the reject pile based on my LSAT score?

With respect to Michigan, I'm still below median, so I doubt I have any chance at a scholarship - but you think I still have an okay shot at admission?

[Tiago Splitter]

You're above the GPA median, so you won't be an auto-reject. Unfortunately the numbers still just seem a little light. Chances are definitely better at Michigan. With applications continuing to rapidly decline (and NYU showing no willingness to decrease its gigantic class size) you would do well to sit out a year and try again next cycle if things don't work out this time. Presumably that would give you a fourth bite at the LSAT apple, and 1-2 more points would be huge.

[TigerDude]

Obviously there are a lot of people admitted below median.

[theycallmefoes]

You're above the GPA median, so you won't be an auto-reject.

Good to know.

Unfortunately the numbers still just seem a little light. Chances are definitely better at Michigan. With applications continuing to rapidly decline (and NYU showing no willingness to decrease its gigantic class size) you would do well to sit out a year and try again next cycle if things don't work out this time. Presumably that would give you a fourth bite at the LSAT apple, and 1-2 more points would be huge.

I figured as much, but I'm definitely not sitting out another cycle. It's now or never for me.

So, basically, I need to write a killer PS and "Why NYU" addendum and wish upon a shooting star.

[theycallmefoes]

Obviously there are a lot of people admitted below median.

Who are not URMs? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think the statistics suggest that most applicants admitted with below-median numbers - especially for the T14 - are URM candidates.

[p3aceandl0v3]

Obviously there are a lot of people admitted below median.

Who are not URMs? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think the statistics suggest that most applicants admitted with below-median numbers - especially for the T14 - are URM candidates.

According to their website, the fall 2013 incoming class was 33% "students of color". Even if these are all URMs and below median, there still a significant amount of non-URM students that fall below median.

[lawschool22]

Obviously there are a lot of people admitted below median.

Who are not URMs? Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think the statistics suggest that most applicants admitted with below-median numbers - especially for the T14 - are URM candidates.

I don't think tiger meant below both medians. If you're below one but above the other, you have a shot. Below both is much more difficult, but since you're above the GPA median, you're not auto-ding.

Still, you should re-take. Why are you so set on NYU, even at sticker + all your worldly possessions over a lower T-14 with $$ (assuming the re-take)?

[PepperJack]

You should retake, but the cost-risk analysis may be better for you because it helps to be fluent in other languages. The caveat to this is that the best predictor of who does poorly on law school exams is being less strong in the English language relative to the rest of the class. I speak foreign languages, but when I compose sentences in them my general problem of speaking way too quickly becomes the problem of speaking way too slowly. Depending on where you got the 3.8 might impact how much debt I'd be willing to take on.

[theycallmefoes]

Still, you should re-take. Why are you so set on NYU, even at sticker + all your worldly possessions over a lower T-14 with $$ (assuming the re-take)?

I'm set on New York City, and I'm set on public interest. That's what led me to NYU as my first choice, which provides students with a lot of public interest opportunities, including many social justice-themed clinics. LRAP is also a plus. Also, they offer the opportunity to apply to PhD programs in your first year of law school, which is something in which I'm interested. Not to mention that I love the campus.

[barrelofmonkeys]

NYU is a great choice, of course, especially if you're set on PI and NYC.

It seems like you're K-JD right now. Sitting out the cycle, retaking the LSAT, and getting some work experience could do wonders for your admissions prospects.

That's definitely the route I would take if I were you. NYU will still be there for a few years, at least

[lawschool22]

Still, you should re-take. Why are you so set on NYU, even at sticker + all your worldly possessions over a lower T-14 with $$ (assuming the re-take)?

I'm set on New York City, and I'm set on public interest. That's what led me to NYU as my first choice, which provides students with a lot of public interest opportunities, including many social justice-themed clinics. LRAP is also a plus. Also, they offer the opportunity to apply to PhD programs in your first year of law school, which is something in which I'm interested. Not to mention that I love the campus.

Yeah, that's what I figured (that you were PI). This is all the more reason you should re-take. If you want the financial flexibility that may be required PI work, you should not go somewhere for sticker. But LRAP? Yeah I know, but it's actually a lot harder to get an LRAP-eligbible position than you may think.

In my opinion the only person who should go to NYU at sticker is someone who knows they are going to do NYC biglaw and will stick it out for 3-5 years.

But no matter your goal, re-taking has so many benefits that I think it's the right call here.

[theycallmefoes]

Still, you should re-take. Why are you so set on NYU, even at sticker + all your worldly possessions over a lower T-14 with $$ (assuming the re-take)?

I'm set on New York City, and I'm set on public interest. That's what led me to NYU as my first choice, which provides students with a lot of public interest opportunities, including many social justice-themed clinics. LRAP is also a plus. Also, they offer the opportunity to apply to PhD programs in your first year of law school, which is something in which I'm interested. Not to mention that I love the campus.

Yeah, that's what I figured (that you were PI). This is all the more reason you should re-take. If you want the financial flexibility that may be required PI work, you should not go somewhere for sticker. But LRAP? Yeah I know, but it's actually a lot harder to get an LRAP-eligbible position than you may think.

Hmmm. Any suggestions as to where I can find out more about this?

But no matter your goal, re-taking has so many benefits that I think it's the right call here.

I'm sure you're right, but I really can't sit out another cycle. Que sera, sera.

[lawschool22]

Still, you should re-take. Why are you so set on NYU, even at sticker + all your worldly possessions over a lower T-14 with $$ (assuming the re-take)?

I'm set on New York City, and I'm set on public interest. That's what led me to NYU as my first choice, which provides students with a lot of public interest opportunities, including many social justice-themed clinics. LRAP is also a plus. Also, they offer the opportunity to apply to PhD programs in your first year of law school, which is something in which I'm interested. Not to mention that I love the campus.

Yeah, that's what I figured (that you were PI). This is all the more reason you should re-take. If you want the financial flexibility that may be required PI work, you should not go somewhere for sticker. But LRAP? Yeah I know, but it's actually a lot harder to get an LRAP-eligbible position than you may think.

Hmmm. Any suggestions as to where I can find out more about this?

But no matter your goal, re-taking has so many benefits that I think it's the right call here.

I'm sure you're right, but I really can't sit out another cycle. Que sera, sera.

Why not?