Is there a point where admissions don't look past numbers? Forum

pkpapn · Post by **pkpapn** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:10 pm

For my undergraduate institution, they had a formula for admissions. If you reached a certain number on this formula with your combined numbers (GPA/ACT/Rank), they automatically admitted you without even reading the rest of your application.

Is there something like this for some law schools?

Example:
If SWIM were to apply to University of Iowa's law school (rank #26)
and SWIM had: 3.8 GPA and 175 LSAT,
the school's 75th percentile GPA is 3.8 (equal to SWIM's GPA)
the school's 75th percentile LSAT is 164 (far below SWIM's LSAT)

Would they simply grant admission without reading letters of recommendation or looking at other parts of transcript? Obviously, I realize they would probably look at my undergraduate institution and race, but other than that?

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:15 pm

Iowa may waitlist you, er SWIM, becasue they dont think SWIM will attend

sinfiery · Post by **sinfiery** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:19 pm

I'm guessing SWIM is swamped with some c&f issues

pkpapn · Post by **pkpapn** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:25 pm

Why would SWIM not attend? Because he could get into a higher ranked school?
If this were the case, wouldn't it make more sense for Iowa to offer SWIM merit-based financial aid to coerce SWIM into attending rather than wait-listing him?

Also, if C&F refers to issues with character such as trouble with the law, that is not the case.
SWIM simply worries about the strength of his letters of recommendation/extracurricular activities because he did not focus on either of those through undergrad.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:33 pm

pkpapn wrote:Why would SWIM not attend? Because he could get into a higher ranked school?
If this were the case, wouldn't it make more sense for Iowa to offer SWIM merit-based financial aid to coerce SWIM into attending rather than wait-listing him?

With HYSCCN numbers, SWIM should demonstrate why they want to attend Iowa to avoid yield protection. 175/3.8 is highly unlikely to attend iowa even with a full ride, unless they are from iowa or have some deep connection with iowa.

Also, pretty sure adcomms will still read SWIMs PS to make sure they arent a douche.

sinfiery · Post by **sinfiery** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:41 pm

For most cases it is being above both medians. Exceptions and Yale/Stanford exist, but a pretty reliable rule to follow.

sublime · Post by **sublime** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:46 pm

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 7:57 pm

sinfiery wrote:For most cases it is being above both medians. Exceptions and Yale/Stanford exist, but a pretty reliable rule to follow.

Agreed. LSN graphs strongly support this.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:05 pm

What is swim

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:09 pm

rad lulz wrote:What is swim

someone who isnt me

Clearly · Post by **Clearly** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:17 pm

Which by the way is a really annoying thing to use, especially on tls, we're not posting about breaking the law here, we're talking about law school admissions

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:30 pm

you're talking about YP - Yield Protection. It's practiced by several schools in the T14. Schools don't admit applicants with numbers or qualifications so high that they will definitely attend a higher ranked school. This is in some cases the sole purpose of the "Why X" statement - to demonstrate as a 3.88/176 that you really, really want to go to Duke and not Harvard.

Why do schools YP? Well, first, having a steady matriculation rate (#attending/#admitted) allows schools to maintain a constant class size and take preventative measures against over- or under-enrolling on a year to year basis. Secondly, and equally importantly, the editors over at USNWR in their infinite wisdom decided to include acceptance rate in their metric when ranking law schools. This is one part of the metric schools feel they can actually manipulate to their advantage. UVA managed to hit a 9% acceptance rate one year via yield protection strategies, which shot it up a couple points.

Also, law admissions are different from UG admissions in one key respect: you must be admissible to the bar. If you committed a felony severe enough that you could not sit for the bar in that state, then law schools will note it as a Character & Fitness issue (you'll notice every LSAC application has a C&F section). Every cycle a handful of applicants with top numbers will be rejected or WL'd at schools they'd normally be admitted to due to one of these issues.

pkpapn · Post by **pkpapn** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:45 pm

Nova wrote:
pkpapn wrote:Why would SWIM not attend? Because he could get into a higher ranked school?
If this were the case, wouldn't it make more sense for Iowa to offer SWIM merit-based financial aid to coerce SWIM into attending rather than wait-listing him?
With HYSCCN numbers, SWIM should demonstrate why they want to attend Iowa to avoid yield protection. 175/3.8 is highly unlikely to attend iowa even with a full ride, unless they are from iowa or have some deep connection with iowa.

Also, pretty sure adcomms will still read SWIMs PS to make sure they arent a douche.

Would this change if the I had a 3.6 GPA (Iowa's median GPA) as opposed to a 3.8? Is just a high LSAT enough to warrant yield protection?

Also, is there a way for the applicant to emphasize that they would certainly attend a given law school if offered a good amount of financial-aid (such as a full ride)? I feel as though this would come across as sounding entitled.

sublime · Post by **sublime** » Thu May 30, 2013 8:54 pm

suralin · Post by **suralin** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:11 pm

Nova wrote:
rad lulz wrote:What is swim
someone who isnt me

Lol I was so confused for a while.

NYstate · Post by **NYstate** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:19 pm

Suralin wrote:
Nova wrote:
rad lulz wrote:What is swim
someone who isnt me
Lol I was so confused for a while.

I was guessing

Single white immigrant male or

Single white Indian male

I guess any nationality starting with I would fit.

I couldn't understand why that would matter.

Also: single white Iowan male

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:21 pm

NYstate wrote: single white Iowan male

pkpapn · Post by **pkpapn** » Thu May 30, 2013 9:40 pm

sublime wrote:
pkpapn wrote:
Nova wrote:
pkpapn wrote:Why would SWIM not attend? Because he could get into a higher ranked school?
If this were the case, wouldn't it make more sense for Iowa to offer SWIM merit-based financial aid to coerce SWIM into attending rather than wait-listing him?
With HYSCCN numbers, SWIM should demonstrate why they want to attend Iowa to avoid yield protection. 175/3.8 is highly unlikely to attend iowa even with a full ride, unless they are from iowa or have some deep connection with iowa.

Also, pretty sure adcomms will still read SWIMs PS to make sure they arent a douche.
Would this change if the I had a 3.6 GPA (Iowa's median GPA) as opposed to a 3.8? Is just a high LSAT enough to warrant yield protection?

Also, is there a way for the applicant to emphasize that they would certainly attend a given law school if offered a good amount of financial-aid (such as a full ride)? I feel as though this would come across as sounding entitled.
Will you just ask whatever you are trying to ask?

And a why x statement, followed by tailoring your PS, followed by LOCI's if you get YP'd

I am not using "SWIM" to be a douche and avoid referencing myself. I am literally speaking on behalf of someone else who doesn't use these forums.. I figured SWIM would be the most convenient to address him.

The 3.6 GPA was a mere hypothetical change to his situation to satisfy my curiosity.

untar614 · Post by **untar614** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:01 pm

pkpapn wrote: I am not using "SWIM" to be a douche and avoid referencing myself. I am literally speaking on behalf of someone else who doesn't use these forums.. I figured SWIM would be the most convenient to address him.

The 3.6 GPA was a mere hypothetical change to his situation to satisfy my curiosity.

In hindsight, it is. I actually like it - it's just not something I'd ever seen before, and I guess that's true for several others here.

Huey Freeman · Post by **Huey Freeman** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:10 pm

NYstate wrote:
Suralin wrote:
Nova wrote:
rad lulz wrote:What is swim
someone who isnt me
Lol I was so confused for a while.
I was guessing

Single white immigrant male or

Single white Indian male

I guess any nationality starting with I would fit.

I couldn't understand why that would matter.

Also: single white Iowan male

I was thinking Straight White Immigrant Male or something like that.

Also, white Indian male sounds weird.

Nova · Post by **Nova** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:22 pm

sublime wrote:And a why x statement, followed by tailoring your PS, followed by LOCI's if you get YP'd

Yup

sinfiery · Post by **sinfiery** » Thu May 30, 2013 10:33 pm

untar614 wrote:
pkpapn wrote: I am not using "SWIM" to be a douche and avoid referencing myself. I am literally speaking on behalf of someone else who doesn't use these forums.. I figured SWIM would be the most convenient to address him.

The 3.6 GPA was a mere hypothetical change to his situation to satisfy my curiosity.
In hindsight, it is. I actually like it - it's just not something I'd ever seen before, and I guess that's true for several others here.

Yea...no body got my c&f joke....
I'm one to believe SWIM was first invented by potheads who attempted to outsmart the courts when talking about drugs online.

suralin · Post by **suralin** » Thu May 30, 2013 11:14 pm

untar614 wrote:
pkpapn wrote: I am not using "SWIM" to be a douche and avoid referencing myself. I am literally speaking on behalf of someone else who doesn't use these forums.. I figured SWIM would be the most convenient to address him.

The 3.6 GPA was a mere hypothetical change to his situation to satisfy my curiosity.
In hindsight, it is. I actually like it - it's just not something I'd ever seen before, and I guess that's true for several others here.

The problem with SWIM is that it doesn't make sense when the OP says SWIM and then somebody else tries to talk about that person who is not the OP. Maybe then SWIM would become SWIY. Meh.

chadbrochill · Post by **chadbrochill** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:17 pm

sinfiery wrote:
untar614 wrote:
pkpapn wrote: I am not using "SWIM" to be a douche and avoid referencing myself. I am literally speaking on behalf of someone else who doesn't use these forums.. I figured SWIM would be the most convenient to address him.

The 3.6 GPA was a mere hypothetical change to his situation to satisfy my curiosity.
In hindsight, it is. I actually like it - it's just not something I'd ever seen before, and I guess that's true for several others here.
Yea...no body got my c&f joke....
I'm one to believe SWIM was first invented by potheads who attempted to outsmart the courts when talking about drugs online.

Lol ya I've only ever seen it used in drug forums so the C&F joke was pretty funny

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