topic dropped Forum

[leo2013]

[edit]~[/edit]

[cinephile]

Seriously, don't worry about it. Report it, of course, but just stick to the facts and don't discuss your motives.

[Steve2207]

This actually does not sound too bad too me. You are owning up to your mistake and pointing out that you learned from it. As for more details, I would not include them unless they are necessary, there is NEVER a good way to explain an arrest, whether you were guilty or not, so these things are best kept short and sweet. If I were to change anything I might leave out the “It was the first and the only offense I’ve ever had in my life. I have not had any arrests, detentions, DUI, or traffic violations during the 12 years after this incidence”, because that is something that will be obvious in that you are not listing any other arrest. Although, including it still does not sound that bad if you feel compelled to do so.

[bp shinners]

Good job on the content - I usually have to savage these to get them in shape, but yours is pretty good. Just clean up the grammar and you're good to go.

[jstr00az]

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


------------------------------------------------------
In 2001, I was charged with Grand theft felony. I went to the local Fry’s store and stole items such as Computer Game CDs and computer mice, of a value exceeding four hundred dollars. I admitted guilt to the police, and was convicted. I was assigned to do community services in Eldercare center for 15 weekends in addition to restitution.
This was an isolated event when I was young and irresponsible. It was the first and the only offense I’ve ever had in my life. I have not had any arrests, detentions, DUI, or traffic violations during the 12 years after this incidence. I tried to use this immature act as motivation in my life to strive for and be a better person and to have respect for others and myself.
---------------------------------------------------------

Several questions:
1) Do I need to reveal more details of what happened, or be more concise?
(I actually had a motive for that shoplifting at that time---they had sold me an expensive computer case with wrong contents and refused a refund and I was angry and try to "get back"at them----But is it any good to mention that? Wouldn't it sound like a deliberate crime and make things even worse? )
2) "the isolated event" paragraph--is it too long and sounds too defensive?
3) Any other tips? Plz, plz, I am so nervous, after learning that some dumbest thing I did 12 years ago would come back and haunt me.

Again, thanks for your time!

Are you confident you were convicted? I'm surprised you weren't offered some kind of deferred prosecution agreement. In NC, for felony larceny (which is the equivalent of grand theft in other states), DAs will frequently offer a deferred prosecution agreement which involves a bunch of community service with the offer that the case will be dismissed upon completion. That's true of lots of jurisdictions.

It's bizarre to me that you got such a shitty deal, unless there's more going on here than you are admitting.

[leo2013]

Affirmative about the conviction. Looking back, I did get the worst deal I could have. I panicked so much that I pick the first attorney on the yellow page, and out of shame I didn't try to seek help from my friends and family. After the conviction I was so pissed---I can't imagine myself being my own attorney and get a worse deal.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


------------------------------------------------------
In 2001, I was charged with Grand theft felony. I went to the local Fry’s store and stole items such as Computer Game CDs and computer mice, of a value exceeding four hundred dollars. I admitted guilt to the police, and was convicted. I was assigned to do community services in Eldercare center for 15 weekends in addition to restitution.
This was an isolated event when I was young and irresponsible. It was the first and the only offense I’ve ever had in my life. I have not had any arrests, detentions, DUI, or traffic violations during the 12 years after this incidence. I tried to use this immature act as motivation in my life to strive for and be a better person and to have respect for others and myself.
---------------------------------------------------------

Several questions:
1) Do I need to reveal more details of what happened, or be more concise?
(I actually had a motive for that shoplifting at that time---they had sold me an expensive computer case with wrong contents and refused a refund and I was angry and try to "get back"at them----But is it any good to mention that? Wouldn't it sound like a deliberate crime and make things even worse? )
2) "the isolated event" paragraph--is it too long and sounds too defensive?
3) Any other tips? Plz, plz, I am so nervous, after learning that some dumbest thing I did 12 years ago would come back and haunt me.

Again, thanks for your time!

Are you confident you were convicted? I'm surprised you weren't offered some kind of deferred prosecution agreement. In NC, for felony larceny (which is the equivalent of grand theft in other states), DAs will frequently offer a deferred prosecution agreement which involves a bunch of community service with the offer that the case will be dismissed upon completion. That's true of lots of jurisdictions.

It's bizarre to me that you got such a shitty deal, unless there's more going on here than you are admitting.

[atcushman]

get rid of this

I tried to use this immature act as motivation in my life to strive for and be a better person and to have respect for others and myself.

Otherwise looks good

Also even if it had been deferred it still would need to be disclosed so dont beat yourself up too much.

[Gradvocates Editing]

You mention "immature" but do not reveal your age at the time of your crime. Although they can see this on your application, it might be a good idea to just include it in the addendum.

[pacifica]

get rid of this

I tried to use this immature act as motivation in my life to strive for and be a better person and to have respect for others and myself.

Otherwise looks good

Also even if it had been deferred it still would need to be disclosed so dont beat yourself up too much.

1 paragraph on facts of the case (and don't mention the "get back at them thing" -- that's trivial and makes you look bad...). Include age at the time, charge, items taken, and final disposition.

I have to disagree with the posters above, and would include a second paragraph about the whole immaturity thing. It's obviously a big mistake, so it's worth mentioning remorse and what you learned from it.

Most importantly, relax, if you write out all the facts and demonstrate remorse, you should be fine. If it reassures you, I had a similar experience at almost the same time, although not as severe in outcome, and I think I did alright this cycle. PM me if you wanna chat more specifics.

[Cicero76]

Seriously, don't worry about it. Report it, of course, but just stick to the facts and don't discuss your motives.

You're straight wrong on this. People on this board need to stop giving this advice:

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... -post.aspx

[cinephile]

Seriously, don't worry about it. Report it, of course, but just stick to the facts and don't discuss your motives.

You're straight wrong on this. People on this board need to stop giving this advice:

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... -post.aspx

Maybe Yale is an outlier, but I really wouldn't be too concerned. I, like so many people on this site, had a C+F addendum and my past did not have the slightest impact on where I got into school. It's my experience that allows me to say don't worry about it.

Also, what use is it to worry about it? This person can't change the past so worrying won't do anything.

[pacifica]

Seriously, don't worry about it. Report it, of course, but just stick to the facts and don't discuss your motives.

You're straight wrong on this. People on this board need to stop giving this advice:

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... -post.aspx

which part? the don't worry about it part? or the don't discuss motives part?

I think OP's situation is different from the one posted by YLS because (1) his/hers situation is from SO long ago (12 years), so that immaturity is truly a legitimate motive/reason and (2) if he/she were to discuss the motive, which cinephile is referring to, as "trying to get back at Fry's", it sounds vindictive, and almost negates the immaturity claim, since it seems like s/he knew exactly what was going on.

I think the fact that the case went all the way to conviction does make it a little more disconcerting, and being completely candid is definitely a good policy. that being said, discussing the motives, at least as OP had presented, is a poor choice IMO in this case, and I still wouldn't worry about it because it was from so so long ago. like I said, I had a very similar experience to OP (albeit lesser in severity and outcome) at around the same time, and I still got a big package signed by the afore-linked blogger if you don't mind me humblebragging.

[atcushman]

Granted it is different from school to school but i faced a similar situation and was told straight from the horses mouth that the only time a conviction is an issue is if you may present a safety risk to students and staff-Not your case-the main concern with reporting the issue is for the bars c&f check where they will review your case and how candid you have been about the conviction.

It would also be a good idea to start collecting all the court records from the case since these can sometimes be a hassle to get a hold of and you will need them possibly as soon as 2L year.

As to my earlier comment its not that I dont think you should include something along the lines of growth and maturity, but to throw one generic "this was a learning experience" line at the end is kinda cheesy.

I just purely explained the facts in my addendum and it worked out, but I know people who used it almost as another personal statement describing it as a life changing event yadda yadda yadda. I think either is fine

[Cicero76]

Seriously, don't worry about it. Report it, of course, but just stick to the facts and don't discuss your motives.

You're straight wrong on this. People on this board need to stop giving this advice:

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... -post.aspx

which part? the don't worry about it part? or the don't discuss motives part?

I think OP's situation is different from the one posted by YLS because (1) his/hers situation is from SO long ago (12 years), so that immaturity is truly a legitimate motive/reason and (2) if he/she were to discuss the motive, which cinephile is referring to, as "trying to get back at Fry's", it sounds vindictive, and almost negates the immaturity claim, since it seems like s/he knew exactly what was going on.

I think the fact that the case went all the way to conviction does make it a little more disconcerting, and being completely candid is definitely a good policy. that being said, discussing the motives, at least as OP had presented, is a poor choice IMO in this case, and I still wouldn't worry about it because it was from so so long ago. like I said, I had a very similar experience to OP (albeit lesser in severity and outcome) at around the same time, and I still got a big package signed by the afore-linked blogger if you don't mind me humblebragging.

The don't discuss motives part. Clearly, from the blog post above, at least one admissions officer is not okay with just a statement of facts. As for you, Pacifica....have you ever even seen your LSN profile? I'm pretty sure nothing short of a terrorist attack was going to keep you out of Yale.

[pacifica]

Thank you, flattered.

I agree with you that not just listing the facts is important, as the blog pointed out. But if the OP were to list the motive as s/he wrote in the post at the top, I'd wince if I were an adcom. Stealing to get back at someone for selling you defective products? That's a bit hard to swallow. So like I had posted above, I thought a better course of action is just to state that s/he was immature at the time, and use the 11/12 years since it's been as good evidence to show that it was indeed a youthful mistake and s/he learned from it.

I think we agree on principle, we're just calling "motive" different things. I just meant the motive the OP listed would be a poor thing to write on an addendum like this.

[jstr00az]

Affirmative about the conviction. Looking back, I did get the worst deal I could have. I panicked so much that I pick the first attorney on the yellow page, and out of shame I didn't try to seek help from my friends and family. After the conviction I was so pissed---I can't imagine myself being my own attorney and get a worse deal.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


------------------------------------------------------
In 2001, I was charged with Grand theft felony. I went to the local Fry’s store and stole items such as Computer Game CDs and computer mice, of a value exceeding four hundred dollars. I admitted guilt to the police, and was convicted. I was assigned to do community services in Eldercare center for 15 weekends in addition to restitution.
This was an isolated event when I was young and irresponsible. It was the first and the only offense I’ve ever had in my life. I have not had any arrests, detentions, DUI, or traffic violations during the 12 years after this incidence. I tried to use this immature act as motivation in my life to strive for and be a better person and to have respect for others and myself.
---------------------------------------------------------

Several questions:
1) Do I need to reveal more details of what happened, or be more concise?
(I actually had a motive for that shoplifting at that time---they had sold me an expensive computer case with wrong contents and refused a refund and I was angry and try to "get back"at them----But is it any good to mention that? Wouldn't it sound like a deliberate crime and make things even worse? )
2) "the isolated event" paragraph--is it too long and sounds too defensive?
3) Any other tips? Plz, plz, I am so nervous, after learning that some dumbest thing I did 12 years ago would come back and haunt me.

Again, thanks for your time!

Are you confident you were convicted? I'm surprised you weren't offered some kind of deferred prosecution agreement. In NC, for felony larceny (which is the equivalent of grand theft in other states), DAs will frequently offer a deferred prosecution agreement which involves a bunch of community service with the offer that the case will be dismissed upon completion. That's true of lots of jurisdictions.

It's bizarre to me that you got such a shitty deal, unless there's more going on here than you are admitting.

Look into an expungement or its equivalent in your state. You may have something available. Since you mentioned Fry's, I'm going to assume this is a western state. Talk to a criminal defense lawyer. As an example, North Carolina allows an expungement of a low level non violent felony after 15 years have passed since the end of probation or the active sentence. If your felony were in this state (and I know it's not), I'd advise you to wait another three years or so and apply to get your record wiped clean. It will much improve your chances if available to you.

Given how bad the job market is, you are going to have a serious problem even if you are admitted to a law school, in getting decent employment as a lawyer. It's not impossible - we have a convicted felon or two practicing in my area. But it's very hard.

[rad lulz]

Look into an expungement or its equivalent in your state. You may have something available. Since you mentioned Fry's, I'm going to assume this is a western state. Talk to a criminal defense lawyer. As an example, North Carolina allows an expungement of a low level non violent felony after 15 years have passed since the end of probation or the active sentence. If your felony were in this state (and I know it's not), I'd advise you to wait another three years or so and apply to get your record wiped clean. It will much improve your chances if available to you.

Given how bad the job market is, you are going to have a serious problem even if you are admitted to a law school, in getting decent employment as a lawyer. It's not impossible - we have a convicted felon or two practicing in my area. But it's very hard.

Even if expunged (I can't think of any state that allows you to expunge a felony conviction), you're gonna have to tell law schools and put it down on bar apps. OP, check whether the states you are most likely to work in have a per-se bar against felons. Some do, and you will get fucked.