Advice Forum

[BerkeleyBear]

Hello TLS,

After reading this forum for the past couple months I have decided to make an account and submit a post. I am an upcoming Junior at UC Berkeley and HAVE NOT taken the LSTAT. I have been taking plenty of former tests and average a score of around 170, a couple points higher or lower give or take (10 tests so far). I know that the tests aren't a full proof estimate, yet, I do hope and expect around a 170 by test time. I have a 3.75 GPA and definitely don't see that dropping below a 3.7. Assuming I get a 170 and a 3.7 will I get into some t10 schools? I really hope admission committees take into account the rigor of the university in itself. I have no idea how people pull off these 3.9+ GPA'S (good job!) Anyways I would love to hear any input from someone. I actually really like UPENN and am going to visit the campus over winter break to get a good feel for the campus. Thanks.

[emkay625]

This web site will be helpful:

lawschoolnumbers.com

[BerkeleyBear]

Thanks for the reply. In all honesty I've been on that site plenty of times and knew someone would mention it. I am hoping to hear more insight from people who were actually admitted to law school, specifically with numbers similar to mine from a reputabe university. Maybe even someone from Berkeley, who could give me an even better perspective. I personally think those numbers are subjective and aren't always a valid indicator of someones potential success in an undetermined admissions pool, vastly different than the previous pool.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Thanks for the reply. In all honesty I've been on that site plenty of times and knew someone would mention it. I am hoping to hear more insight from people who were actually admitted to law school, specifically with numbers similar to mine from a reputabe university. Maybe even someone from Berkeley, who could give me an even better perspective. I personally think those numbers are subjective and aren't always a valid indicator of someones potential success in an undetermined admissions pool, vastly different than the previous pool.

That's basically what LSN is for. The best advice right now is to keep that GPA up (you're only halfway done, there is a very real possibility that it could dip below a 3.7) and keep doing well on LSAT prep.

[BerkeleyBear]

Okay thanks and I agree! Well, technically I have a 3.85 with 63 units but gave myself a little wiggle room in case it does drop to that 3.7 haha knowing plenty well how harsh the curve is here. I'm curious, however, when you say I'm halfway done, what do you mean? If I take my LSTAT later this year wouldn't I be applying to the law schools first thing senior year? I mean obviously my grades senior year are going to be applicable, yet, aren't I 2/3rds done for the most part of the process?

[bmore]

If you are familiar with this site then you have seen many people with a 170 and 3.7 get into a T-10. So if you do get at least a 170, you very well may. The rigor of your program is not likely to mean anything. No insult intended but it doesn't matter that you think the numbers are subjective.

Apps are down so those numbers should take you further than in the past. Penn likes high GPAs so try to bump it up.

[BerkeleyBear]

Thanks bmore. I'll certainly try to raise my GPA but I doubt it will rise any higher. I was under the impression that people were only applying with better stats now because of the economy, but I really am not sure. I know that my thinking the numbers are subjective doesn't mean anything obviously. On the other hand, I know the rigor of my actual program doesn't matter (I never even stated this) but the universities rigor itself isn't going to carry weight? I mean an A- in itself is weighted 3.7 here and to get all A's in every course is remarkably difficult with the curves. Not to sound conceited, but I think it would be incredibly easier to get A's at a CSU or even a lower tier UC due to the competition there. Getting A's in a nobel laureates class when only 15 kids can get an A out of 300 has GOT to carry more weight then an A at CSU Sacramento. On top of just rigor itself, I would imagine law schools would want to draw students in from many states and various leading universities. Anyways, I can tell the law kids replying don't care for hypothetical chance posts so I will carry on and try to raise my stats. You miserable kids.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Thanks bmore. I'll certainly try to raise my GPA but I doubt it will rise any higher. I was under the impression that people were only applying with better stats now because of the economy, but I really am not sure. I know that my thinking the numbers are subjective doesn't mean anything obviously. On the other hand, I know the rigor of my actual program doesn't matter (I never even stated this) but the universities rigor itself isn't going to carry weight? I mean an A- in itself is weighted 3.7 here and to get all A's in every course is remarkably difficult with the curves. Not to sound conceited, but I think it would be incredibly easier to get A's at a CSU or even a lower tier UC due to the competition there. Getting A's in a nobel laureates class when only 15 kids can get an A out of 300 has GOT to carry more weight then an A at CSU Sacramento. On top of just rigor itself, I would imagine law schools wound want to draw students in from many states and various university. Anyways, I can tell the law kids replying don't care for hypothetical chance posts so I will carry on and try to raise my stats. You miserable kids.

No. This has been discussed in great detail on this website. If your degree is in a hard science, you might get a slight bump. And stop insinuating that going to Berkeley gives you some level of prestige unheard of in the LS application process. You actually have it inverted; your major could impact how adcomms see your GPA, your institution most likely will not. Kids with your GPA from Ivies don't get any wiggle room, either.

And I was talking about being halfway through your UG career, so only halfway to having that good GPA. Stop obsessing about LSAC weighting an A- as a 3.67 instead of a 3.7 and just hit the books, keep your grades up, enjoy Berkeley, and get a great LSAT score.

[Jaytray]

Berkeley grad here. Fwiw I think I slightly outperformed my numbers last cycle, especially when it came to applying to CA law schools. That could have been due to Berkeley or it could have been due to some of my softs (although objectively speaking I think those are mediocre at best). My GPA is in the range of OP and while I agree that it's not easy to get an A at Cal I don't think law schools really care. Just do as well as you possibly can in your remaining classes, rock the LSAT, be humble, and you'll be fine.

[BerkeleyBear]

Dude are you outraged or something?

"And stop insinuating that going to Berkeley gives you some level of prestige unheard of in the LS application process."

An unheard level of prestige never heard of is an odd way of interpreting my comments. May I ask where you go to law school? Because you're taking things out of context. I'm simply acknowledging my belief that it is much harder to get A's at the top public where classes are huge and curved, and the competition is fierce. Yes, I do believe that an A at Berkeley is more credible than an A at CSUS. Furthermore, I believe that the law schools I apply to will surely know this as well. I specifically asked the dean here at Cal and he said "MANY of the top law schools factor in the rigor of the undergrad university." I'll stop asking questions to the kids on here and stick to myself but one last thing. Sure, technically I am half way done with my UG. But when I apply the beginning of Senior year wont I find out in most cases before that first fall term is even over. As in, they don't factor in your senior year GPA for admission purposes. Am I wrong?

[BerkeleyBear]

@Jaytray, THANK YOU! I'm in the exact same boat you were. I don't have incredible softs, mediocre at best compared to the other students here at Cal. I'll try my best on the LSTAT and at school. Good luck in your future endeavors, and of course, ROLL ON YOU BEARS!

[Dany]

Thanks bmore. I'll certainly try to raise my GPA but I doubt it will rise any higher. I was under the impression that people were only applying with better stats now because of the economy, but I really am not sure. I know that my thinking the numbers are subjective doesn't mean anything obviously. On the other hand, I know the rigor of my actual program doesn't matter (I never even stated this) but the universities rigor itself isn't going to carry weight? I mean an A- in itself is weighted 3.7 here and to get all A's in every course is remarkably difficult with the curves. Not to sound conceited, but I think it would be incredibly easier to get A's at a CSU or even a lower tier UC due to the competition there. Getting A's in a nobel laureates class when only 15 kids can get an A out of 300 has GOT to carry more weight then an A at CSU Sacramento. On top of just rigor itself, I would imagine law schools would want to draw students in from many states and various leading universities. Anyways, I can tell the law kids replying don't care for hypothetical chance posts so I will carry on and try to raise my stats. You miserable kids.

Get over yourself.

[20130312]

NO HYPOS ALLOWED.

[xcedrin2000]

@Jaytray, THANK YOU! I'm in the exact same boat you were. I don't have incredible softs, mediocre at best compared to the other students here at Cal. I'll try my best on the LSTAT and at school. Good luck in your future endeavors, and of course, ROLL ON YOU BEARS!

Good luck on the LSTAT-shoot for 1.80!

[shntn]

I'm simply acknowledging my belief that it is much harder to get A's at the top public where classes are huge and curved, and the competition is fierce. Yes, I do believe that an A at Berkeley is more credible than an A at CSUS. Furthermore, I believe that the law schools I apply to will surely know this as well. I specifically asked the dean here at Cal and he said "MANY of the top law schools factor in the rigor of the undergrad university."

There may be some weight afforded to your undergrad institution but nowhere near as much as you seem to believe. There's been a lot of discussion about this point in these forums and others, so do some research and you can probably find some anecdotal evidence to prove yourself right if that's your goal here. If the advice of "get the best GPA and LSAT you can" isn't enough for you, then, well...I'm at a loss. It's a completely irrelevant point unless you're planning to transfer to a more preftigious ugrad to get whatever you bump you imagine that would give you.

Sure, technically I am half way done with my UG. But when I apply the beginning of Senior year wont I find out in most cases before that first fall term is even over. As in, they don't factor in your senior year GPA for admission purposes. Am I wrong?

I would assume that your admissions decisions would be based on the grades you have available at the time when you apply. That said, I would also expect schools to request that you submit fall term grades as soon as you receive them. The point is that senior year might still count. You sound like you're in solid shape, so just keep doing what you're doing and forget about factors beyond your control.

[T14hoping]

Dude are you outraged or something?
I specifically asked the dean here at Cal and he said "MANY of the top law schools factor in the rigor of the undergrad university."

They might "factor in" the "rigor" of a given university, but it will likely count for peanuts as compared to GPA/LSAT.

[BerkeleyBear]

@Dany, are you a UCLA grad or something? I have no idea why people would take the time to respond something in a hostile manner. You sound really mature.

@Ingoodfaith, yeah I made a huge mistake making this HYPO thread haha. Never again until I get my lstat score.

@xcedrin, thanks I'll try my best but I seem to always miss a couple on the RC section, it is incredibly frustrating.

@Shinton, thank you for the detailed in-depth response. Your comment is very helpful. I absolutely know my UG isn't going to make or break my app and that LSTAT and GPA are most important to LS. That is the best advice surely and that is what I have been working on.

@t14, I agree wholeheartedly. I'm just speaking in the terms of if a kid from a tier 2 with the same stats as me applies, I think I would have a small advantage. Not a large one at all but a minute one. I don't expect my UG to automatically get me in or get scholly money or anything of the sorts haha.

Thanks everyone.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Are you sure you're applying to law school?

[Samara]

Are you sure you're applying to law school?

Haven't you heard of the LSTAT? It's a special law school admissions test that only students from preftigious undergrads like Berkeley can take. No CSU Sacramento kids allowed!

[BerkeleyBear]

@alwayssunnyinnfl, I'm sorry if I offended you. I find your link really humorous, you are quite funny. I have no quarrel with you and if my example reflects you in any way, again, I'm sorry. I don't mean to take anything away from anyone working hard to get A's anywhere, at any school. It is incredibly difficult to get A's at Berkeley however, if you understood you would know I'm more of venting about the difficulty than anything else. A kid with a 4.0 at a CSU could be more intelligent than a 4.0 Berkeley kid, there's no doubt in my mind. But in my opinion, and I believe I should be allocated one because I'm the OP, Getting an A at Berkeley is extremely difficult for numerous reasons. Sorry for offending you. If you are going to be a good lawyer, I'd grow some more skin on your back. I really hope the best for you, good luck.

@Samara, That is not what I am saying one bit. Enjoy law school Samara I wish you the best.

[Samara]

@alwayssunnyinnfl, I'm sorry if I offended you. I find your link really humorous, you are quite funny. I have no quarrel with you and if my example reflects you in any way, again, I'm sorry. I don't mean to take anything away from anyone working hard to get A's anywhere, at any school. It is incredibly difficult to get A's at Berkeley however, if you understood you would know I'm more of venting about the difficulty than anything else. A kid with a 4.0 at a CSU could be more intelligent than a 4.0 Berkeley kid, there's no doubt in my mind. But in my opinion, and I believe I should be allocated one because I'm the OP, Getting an A at Berkeley is extremely difficult for numerous reasons. Sorry for offending you. If you are going to be a good lawyer, I'd grow some more skin on your back. I really hope the best for you, good luck.

@Samara, That is not what I am saying one bit. Enjoy law school Samara I wish you the best.

Bro, you have learn to take some sarcastic ribbing and get over this superiority complex you have. Most people at T14 schools went to top schools for undergrad, so they aren't going to care at all about your moaning that Berkeley As are more difficult.

ETA: LOL at the bolded. Killing with kindness doesn't actually work you know, especially not on the internet.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

@alwayssunnyinnfl, I'm sorry if I offended you. I find your link really humorous, you are quite funny. I have no quarrel with you and if my example reflects you in any way, again, I'm sorry. I don't mean to take anything away from anyone working hard to get A's anywhere, at any school. It is incredibly difficult to get A's at Berkeley however, if you understood you would know I'm more of venting about the difficulty than anything else. A kid with a 4.0 at a CSU could be more intelligent than a 4.0 Berkeley kid, there's no doubt in my mind. But in my opinion, and I believe I should be allocated one because I'm the OP, Getting an A at Berkeley is extremely difficult for numerous reasons. Sorry for offending you. If you are going to be a good lawyer, I'd grow some more skin on your back. I really hope the best for you, good luck.

@Samara, That is not what I am saying one bit. Enjoy law school Samara I wish you the best.

Bro, you have learn to take some sarcastic ribbing and get over this superiority complex you have. Most people at T14 schools went to top schools for undergrad, so they aren't going to care at all about your moaning that Berkeley As are more difficult.

ETA: LOL at the bolded. Killing with kindness doesn't actually work you know, especially not on the internet.

Twist: most people I know IRL say I revert to killing-with-kindness way too often.

[Samara]

@alwayssunnyinnfl, I'm sorry if I offended you. I find your link really humorous, you are quite funny. I have no quarrel with you and if my example reflects you in any way, again, I'm sorry. I don't mean to take anything away from anyone working hard to get A's anywhere, at any school. It is incredibly difficult to get A's at Berkeley however, if you understood you would know I'm more of venting about the difficulty than anything else. A kid with a 4.0 at a CSU could be more intelligent than a 4.0 Berkeley kid, there's no doubt in my mind. But in my opinion, and I believe I should be allocated one because I'm the OP, Getting an A at Berkeley is extremely difficult for numerous reasons. Sorry for offending you. If you are going to be a good lawyer, I'd grow some more skin on your back. I really hope the best for you, good luck.

@Samara, That is not what I am saying one bit. Enjoy law school Samara I wish you the best.

Bro, you have learn to take some sarcastic ribbing and get over this superiority complex you have. Most people at T14 schools went to top schools for undergrad, so they aren't going to care at all about your moaning that Berkeley As are more difficult.

ETA: LOL at the bolded. Killing with kindness doesn't actually work you know, especially not on the internet.

Twist: most people I know IRL say I revert to killing-with-kindness way too often.

Must be that Florida charm.

[alwayssunnyinfl]

Damnit. I was really hoping this would pan out to be a bearsgirl alt.

[BerkeleyBear]

@Samara, I told him his link was funny. I took that "sarcastic ribbing" just fine haha. You are the one coming into this thread with hostility so what does that say about you "bro"? I have been sincere throughout this thread from the very beginning. Carry on with your immature remarks.