Cooley Enrollment Tanks Forum

[lovelaw27]

This past year's enrollment for incoming students was down 28%. And decline in enrollment is expected to continue this year. They jack up tuition each year to make up for loss of revenue which leads to less people interested in going to the school which leads them to jack up tuition again the following year. I can see where this is headed. Looks like a death spiral for the school. How much longer to people think this school has? I say less than five years. Official letter below:

"From: President LeDuc
To: Cooley Students
Re: Tuition for 2012-13
Date: June 29, 2012
Cooley’s Board of Directors just approved the 2012-13 budget, which includes an
increase in tuition, as is usual. Tuition for the next year for both incoming and returning
students will increase $100 per credit hour. For returning students this is an 8.5%
increase, about 1% more than was the case last year. The new hourly tuition for returning
students will be $1,275 and for new students it will be $1,325. Tuition in the LL.M.
program will increase to $650 per credit hour.
Applications to law school have turned abruptly down across the nation. And as
is usual, the schools that tend to tout their exclusiveness and high standards in good times
are now taking students they would not take because of the downturn in applications.
This lowering of standards exacerbates the challenge we face in filling our classes at
Cooley when applications decline. This year’s three incoming classes declined in
enrollment by about 28%, leading to an 8% decline in total enrollment.
That lower enrollment carries forward into next year, where we anticipate
additional, substantial declines in the total enrollment. In putting together the budget for
the coming year, we assumed that we would have new student enrollment at the same
levels as last year. In reality, we anticipate further declines in new student enrollment in
2012-13, based on applications and deposits to date. So, we face a serious challenge for
the coming year.
The Strategic Plan adopted by the School in 2002 and revised in 2009 includes a
vision strategy to keep Cooley’s tuition in the bottom quartile among private law schools.
We’ve been well below that level for some time, and our educational program remains
undervalued compared to about three-quarters of the other private schools.
Tuition comparisons are challenging to make, however, due to lack of
standardized reporting requirements, widely divergent charging practices, and the use of
fees to supplement tuition at some schools, perhaps so that they can make the claim that
tuition cost is not increasing. Many schools do not report hourly tuition rates, and there is
no standardized reporting of fees.
Although there is no longer an ABA-imposed mandatory tuition reporting
standard for full-time students by credit hour, Cooley reports as full-time tuition the cost
of two semesters of 14 credits each, plus mandatory fees (for the SBA). That represents
the once-mandated reporting format and constitutes what might be called the traditional
cost of tuition and fees. Cooley has always reported its tuition on this traditional basis.
Based on the traditional standard full-time academic year of two semesters our
tuition for entering students will be $37,140 (28 x $1,325 + $40). Using the traditional
figure, we will be about the 33rd lowest among the 117 private law schools, placing us in
2
the estimated lowest 28% in tuition among private law schools this coming year. For
returning students, the figure is $35,740, which would be about the 22nd lowest and in the
lowest 19%.
A fairly large group of schools report what I’ll call the “block” full-time tuition,
which is the cost of taking 13 or more credit hours. [The American Bar Association
requires that students taking 13 or more credits be treated as full-time, but some schools
even include those taking 12 credit hours in the full-time block.] These schools charge
by “block” for 13 to 16 credit hours [they charge a premium hourly tuition for part-time
or more than 16 credit hours]. Most Cooley full-time students graduate in seven
semesters, averaging just under 13 credit hours per semester. Based on the block tuition
for full-time status, our tuition is $34,490 (26 x $1,325 + $40), or for returning students
$33,190.
Complicating these alternatives is the fact that schools have differing credit hour
requirements for graduation. The most common requirement is 90 credit hours, like at
Cooley, meaning 30 credits per year is full time for the students at that particular school.
Based on the common tuition for incoming full-time students, our tuition is $39,790 (30 x
$1,325 + $40). Returning students will have annual tuition of $38,290.
By the traditional measure, Cooley’s incoming tuition of $37,140 is now just
above the lowest quartile for incoming students, while the tuition for returning students
will be within the lowest quartile. It now looks like the bottom quartile cut-off will fall at
about $36,526 per year and the median will fall at about $41,990, based on a review of
web site information. It appears that at least 62 of the 117 private ABA schools have
tuition at $40,000 or higher per year, while 12 now exceed $50,000 per year. Only one
school is under $25,000 per year, and only one or two schools are under $30,000 per
year.
No comparison, however favorable, makes the cost of legal education any less
challenging or painful. The Board and I continue to work to implement the Strategic
Plan’s vision to make Cooley one of the nation’s most affordable private law schools,
even during this year of diminished enrollment."

[071816]

demasiado largo; no lo leí

[PaulKriske]

"From: President LeDuc
To: Cooley Students
Re: Tuition for 2012-13
Date: June 29, 2012

...Applications to law school have turned abruptly down across the nation. And as
is usual, the schools that tend to tout their exclusiveness and high standards in good times
are now taking students they would not take because of the downturn in applications.
This lowering of standards exacerbates the challenge we face in filling our classes...

hahahahahaha

[top30man]

I love how they continually point out how cheap tuition is but then are like "btw it costs 37 grand to go here now."

[sunynp]

Why do they make it sound like they are doing the right thing by reporting tuition by the hour. Anyone can multiply the hours by tuition.

[irish1485]

Unfortunately I have a friend who'll be starting at Cooley in Florida this fall.... I tried to tell her

[Mal Reynolds]

demasiado largo; no lo leí

Ya veo lo que hice allí.

[Bildungsroman]

"We may not be as good as other law schools, but at least we're not as cheap as them!"

[JCFindley]

The Strategic Plan adopted by the School in 2002 and revised in 2009 includes a
vision strategy to keep Cooley’s tuition in the bottom quartile among private law schools.
We’ve been well below that level for some time, and our educational program remains
undervalued compared to about three-quarters of the other private schools.
"

By recruiters and employers in general perhaps?

[shock259]

By everyone except Cooley administrators ..

[KevinP]

At least they can game the library square footage per student ranking.

I love how they continually point out how cheap tuition is but then are like "btw it costs 37 grand to go here now."

+1

[catholicgirl]

Grumbles.

Still getting pressured by family members to go here. "It's so close to home" and "It's a very good school"

Die Cooley, die.

[JCFindley]

Grumbles.

Still getting pressured by family members to go here. "It's so close to home" and "It's a very good school"

Die Cooley, die.

But, it's undervalued, you will be fine if you do.....

[timbs4339]

Using the traditional
figure, we will be about the 33rd lowest among the 117 private law schools, placing us in
2
the estimated lowest 28% in tuition among private law schools this coming year.

Well fuck me! I'm so proud I'm going to a law school ranked in the top 28% in affordability, especially since everyone knows you're TTT if you're over the 29th percentile!

Also lol at including private law schools when two of the six schools in your own state are public (three if you count Michigan).

[abc12345675]

I actually think schools like Cooley could serve a purpose. But they need to cost around $5,000 a semester to serve that purpose.

[abc12345675]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

[cabbydui]

"Also lol at including private law schools when two of the six schools in your own state are public (three if you count Michigan)."

I think Wayne St. is the only truly public school in MI. (UM is essentially private and UDM, Cool School, and MSU are 100% private). Your point is well taken though!

[mattviphky]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

[abc12345675]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

haha true. That is just incredible to me. The State of Michigan really needs more than 1,000 Cooley grads every year? What are they thinking? Borderline fraud

[catholicgirl]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

haha true. That is just incredible to me. The State of Michigan really needs more than 1,000 Cooley grads every year? What are they thinking? Borderline fraud

I don't think people outside of Michigan understand the completely blind mentality people maintain in regards to these schools. I still have neighbors that respond when my mom tells them where I'm going for law school, with "Why doesn't she just go to Cooley?" There is no real recognition (at least among the middle and upper-middle-classes in suburban areas) that going to a place like Cooley or Toledo is not a good idea. I don't know how to explain it.

[fatduck]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

haha true. That is just incredible to me. The State of Michigan really needs more than 1,000 Cooley grads every year? What are they thinking? Borderline fraud

I don't think people outside of Michigan understand the completely blind mentality people maintain in regards to these schools. I still have neighbors that respond when my mom tells them where I'm going for law school, with "Why doesn't she just go to Cooley?" There is no real recognition (at least among the middle and upper-middle-classes in suburban areas) that going to a place like Cooley or Toledo is not a good idea. I don't know how to explain it.

people from michigan are completely blind to how shitty things in their state are? THIS IS BRAND NEW INFORMATION

[timbs4339]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

haha true. That is just incredible to me. The State of Michigan really needs more than 1,000 Cooley grads every year? What are they thinking? Borderline fraud

I don't think people outside of Michigan understand the completely blind mentality people maintain in regards to these schools. I still have neighbors that respond when my mom tells them where I'm going for law school, with "Why doesn't she just go to Cooley?" There is no real recognition (at least among the middle and upper-middle-classes in suburban areas) that going to a place like Cooley or Toledo is not a good idea. I don't know how to explain it.

It's the same way with other states. Where I grew up (East Coast) there are 2 TTT, high-cost, private schools with crappy job prospects that a lot of the local kids go to. Older folks can't understand why this would be a bad decision. A lot of it is just lay name recognition, holdover from the days when those schools cost a fraction of what they do now, or having every local lawyer as an alum. Some of it is having no clue that just being a "sharp kid" (because only sharp kids go to law school at those schools) doesn't mean you'll have a job.

[abc12345675]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

It's the same way with other states. Where I grew up (East Coast) there are 2 TTT, high-cost, private schools with crappy job prospects that a lot of the local kids go to. Older folks can't understand why this would be a bad decision. A lot of it is just lay name recognition, holdover from the days when those schools cost a fraction of what they do now, or having every local lawyer as an alum. Some of it is having no clue that just being a "sharp kid" (because only sharp kids go to law school at those schools) doesn't mean you'll have a job.

[/quote]

My girlfriend got in to several T1's and her parents couldn't understand why she wouldn't just go locally to Texas Weselyn since they knew several grads..................Adult non-lawyers have no CLUE about any of this.

[JCFindley]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you realize cooley has almost 4,000 students?????? I just discovered that...WOW

If you closed Cooley, Florida Coastal, and the John Marshalls, then like 10,000 law students would be avoiding a hard road ahead.

haha true. That is just incredible to me. The State of Michigan really needs more than 1,000 Cooley grads every year? What are they thinking? Borderline fraud

I don't think people outside of Michigan understand the completely blind mentality people maintain in regards to these schools. I still have neighbors that respond when my mom tells them where I'm going for law school, with "Why doesn't she just go to Cooley?" There is no real recognition (at least among the middle and upper-middle-classes in suburban areas) that going to a place like Cooley or Toledo is not a good idea. I don't know how to explain it.

People that have never looked into going to LS or at least not in the last ten years wouldn't have a cool. To be honest, it is the ONLY broad profession that I have run across where it is this big a deal WHERE you get your degree. No one really cares where you got your RN or MD so long as it is an accredited school. Ph.D? Yeah, OK there are more respected schools than others but someone that gets their Ph.D. at a lower ranked school is not looking at being completely unemployed. Get an Engineering degree virtually anywhere so long as it is not online and you are good to go as an engineer.

Hey, he/she is a lawyer, wow. They can do ANYTHING they want and work anywhere they want or so people think. I had no idea myself until I started looking into actually attending. I can honestly see how IF you didn't do your homework you might well be perfectly happy being accepted to Cool Breeze U until they get there and start looking for a job.

Oh, and your lawyer friends won't tell you WHY they are not practicing law BTW after they go to these schools. Oh, I was burned out. Oh, I decided to have a family instead. I prefer being an airline pilot or flight attendant. (I know one of each) I like being a photographer better. I like being in the Army more (non JAG.)

It is not surprising that the average Joe has no idea just how bad it is out there. I got into a big ole online debate with a photographer not long ago because they said, "Well, he's a lawyer so he makes a LOT of money." Really? REALLY? Yeah, and you (The photographer) charge $200/hr session fee so I guess you make 8K/40hr week? It doesn't work that way in either case but it is doubtful the general public will ever know all this.

[abc12345675]

Am I the only one who LOVES the Cooley rankings? I think it's awesome that somebody sat down and figured out a formula that not only put Cooley near the top, but kept most of actual top schools there too. Pure genius.