"It's about who you know, not where you go to school" Forum

[Paraflam]

I was talking to this girl in my class who's also taking the LSAT in June about how she's studying, and asked how many PTs she's taken so far. She laughed and said she hasn't even started studying yet, and asked how many I've taken. I said four, and she goes, "God, what are you trying to get into like Northwestern or something?"
Me "Not necessarily Northwestern (I won't have WE), but the best school I can get into, yeah. I don't want to go somewhere with shitty job prospects"
Her "Law is all about who you know, not where you go to law school. I just want a degree, I don't care where from."

At this point, I didn't know whether I should just drop it and let her believe that, or actually try to explain the reality of it to her. I asked who she knew, and she said her uncle is a judge and her friend's dad is a lawyer, so she's pretty much set. I figured I wasn't gonna talk her out of it anyway, so I didn't want to sound like an elitist dickhead.

I just don't understand how anyone can decide make a $150,000 investment without doing any kind of research about the kind of employment prospects they'll have after graduating.

[Curious1]

I mean, she's not wrong in principle, but her connections obviously won't cut it.

But if you have some REAL connections--like if your dad is a hiring partner or runs his own firm, you ARE set no matter where you go.

For example, you could be this girl:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-29/ente ... PM:SHOWBIZ

She is a second-generation celebrity lawyer. Her father, Dennis Wasser, handles the family affairs of studio moguls and billionaires. She works at his firm, giving the families of broken-hearted rockers and TV and movie stars the same TLC her father showers on their bosses.

I saw this on CNN a long time ago. Your friend isn't in her situation but there are people who are...

[MrAnon]

In one sense she is right. You have to consider a few factors.

1. who you know
2. ability to schmooze
3. intelligence

1 and 2 are born, not bred. Most law students overlook them, think just by going to a T1 or something they'll be safe. 3 is reflected by the school you attend. Nobody, not even your own father, wants to hire you if you are a plain dummy.

[MrAnon]

By the way, if someone like that had true connections, they wouldn't be bothering with law school at all. They'd know someone who would hire them for a job now. It shows that generally her connections don't run very deep. Paying out 6 figures just to take advantage of your connections if a suckers game.

[realhero]

I mean, she's not wrong in principle, but her connections obviously won't cut it.

But if you have some REAL connections--like if your dad is a hiring partner or runs his own firm, you ARE set no matter where you go.

For example, you could be this girl:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-29/ente ... PM:SHOWBIZ

She is a second-generation celebrity lawyer. Her father, Dennis Wasser, handles the family affairs of studio moguls and billionaires. She works at his firm, giving the families of broken-hearted rockers and TV and movie stars the same TLC her father showers on their bosses.

I saw this on CNN a long time ago. Your friend isn't in her situation but there are people who are...

So. Jealous.

To echo: if daddy runs the firm, than yeah you're set. But if you just have a great ability to schmooze and loose connections, name does matter. A lot. Law is all about prestige (as is, say, management consulting). There are some sectors, like IB and medicine where it doesn't matter that much where you went as long as you pound pavement or hit the books. But not law.

Edit: I should say that biglaw is all about prestige. Top tier law firms are much more name whorey than top tier IB, for example. However, if you're not aiming for big firms and you're staying local, T14 (the 'national' brands) matter much, much less.

[shock259]

You have to REALLY know people though. Your dad's friend's golf partner who is a judge isn't going to get you anywhere. But if your dad is a hiring partner somewhere in a firm with no policies against nepotism, you'll probably be alright.

[Ludo!]

Is she hot?

[Paraflam]

Is she hot?

Decently, not all that bright though. The scary part is that she's got the exact same thought process as everyone else in our pre-law society. They had a speaker come in the other day who was an adcomm at a super-TTTT, and everyone was eating it up like it was their dream school. I stopped going to our meetings because I didn't want to be that one asshole that tried to cut down everyone's goals or whatever, and I knew it was going to slip out one day since they all talk about how rich they're gonna be when they become lawyers.

[Real Madrid]

I was talking to this girl in my class who's also taking the LSAT in June about how she's studying, and asked how many PTs she's taken so far. She laughed and said she hasn't even started studying yet, and asked how many I've taken. I said four, and she goes, "God, what are you trying to get into like Northwestern or something?"
Me "Not necessarily Northwestern (I won't have WE), but the best school I can get into, yeah. I don't want to go somewhere with shitty job prospects"
Her "Law is all about who you know, not where you go to law school. I just want a degree, I don't care where from."

At this point, I didn't know whether I should just drop it and let her believe that, or actually try to explain the reality of it to her. I asked who she knew, and she said her uncle is a judge and her friend's dad is a lawyer, so she's pretty much set. I figured I wasn't gonna talk her out of it anyway, so I didn't want to sound like an elitist dickhead.

I just don't understand how anyone can decide make a $150,000 investment without doing any kind of research about the kind of employment prospects they'll have after graduating.

Lmao, she sounds precious.

[Ludo!]

Is she hot?

Decently, not all that bright though. The scary part is that she's got the exact same thought process as everyone else in our pre-law society. They had a speaker come in the other day who was an adcomm at a super-TTTT, and everyone was eating it up like it was their dream school. I stopped going to our meetings because I didn't want to be that one asshole that tried to cut down everyone's goals or whatever, and I knew it was going to slip out one day since they all talk about how rich they're gonna be when they become lawyers.

For some reason pre-law societies seem to attract the dumbest people. (No offense meant to anyone here of course)

[catholicgirl]

Is she hot?

Decently, not all that bright though. The scary part is that she's got the exact same thought process as everyone else in our pre-law society. They had a speaker come in the other day who was an adcomm at a super-TTTT, and everyone was eating it up like it was their dream school. I stopped going to our meetings because I didn't want to be that one asshole that tried to cut down everyone's goals or whatever, and I knew it was going to slip out one day since they all talk about how rich they're gonna be when they become lawyers.

THIS. This is why I told my resident to drop out of the pre-law society at my school. It's absolutely ridiculous. The person in charge of the program actually told someone to take a prep course that featured fake LSAT questions and tests because it was conveniently offered on campus.

[catholicgirl]

Is she hot?

Decently, not all that bright though. The scary part is that she's got the exact same thought process as everyone else in our pre-law society. They had a speaker come in the other day who was an adcomm at a super-TTTT, and everyone was eating it up like it was their dream school. I stopped going to our meetings because I didn't want to be that one asshole that tried to cut down everyone's goals or whatever, and I knew it was going to slip out one day since they all talk about how rich they're gonna be when they become lawyers.

For some reason pre-law societies seem to attract the dumbest people. (No offense meant to anyone here of course)

pssst I agree and don't give a flying f if I do offend people.

[Paraflam]

Yeah, it would help if our pre-law advisor had a clue, too. We took a practice LSAT at the first meeting I went to, and everyone scored in the low/mid 140s. I didn't want to tell everyone what I got and sound stuck up so I said it was a 155 (not that it was really that great anyway). The advisor acted like I was some kind of god, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the LSAT study group. She told everyone that any score in the 150s is "golden." Last year's pre-law society president graduated and now goes to John Marshall, and the advisor talks to us about him like he's some notable alumni because of it.

[tedalbany]

Yeah, it would help if our pre-law advisor had a clue, too. We took a practice LSAT at the first meeting I went to, and everyone scored in the low/mid 140s. I didn't want to tell everyone what I got and sound stuck up so I said it was a 155 (not that it was really that great anyway). The advisor acted like I was some kind of god, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the LSAT study group. She told everyone that any score in the 150s is "golden." Last year's pre-law society president graduated and now goes to John Marshall, and the advisor talks to us about him like he's some notable alumni because of it.

Do you go to a TTT UG or something?

[Paraflam]

Yeah, it would help if our pre-law advisor had a clue, too. We took a practice LSAT at the first meeting I went to, and everyone scored in the low/mid 140s. I didn't want to tell everyone what I got and sound stuck up so I said it was a 155 (not that it was really that great anyway). The advisor acted like I was some kind of god, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the LSAT study group. She told everyone that any score in the 150s is "golden." Last year's pre-law society president graduated and now goes to John Marshall, and the advisor talks to us about him like he's some notable alumni because of it.

Do you go to a TTT UG or something?

Oh yeah. Bullshit state school. For free, though.

[rayiner]

I mean, she's not wrong in principle, but her connections obviously won't cut it.

But if you have some REAL connections--like if your dad is a hiring partner or runs his own firm, you ARE set no matter where you go.

For example, you could be this girl:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-29/ente ... PM:SHOWBIZ

She is a second-generation celebrity lawyer. Her father, Dennis Wasser, handles the family affairs of studio moguls and billionaires. She works at his firm, giving the families of broken-hearted rockers and TV and movie stars the same TLC her father showers on their bosses.

I saw this on CNN a long time ago. Your friend isn't in her situation but there are people who are...

So. Jealous.

To echo: if daddy runs the firm, than yeah you're set. But if you just have a great ability to schmooze and loose connections, name does matter. A lot. Law is all about prestige (as is, say, management consulting). There are some sectors, like IB and medicine where it doesn't matter that much where you went as long as you pound pavement or hit the books. But not law.

Edit: I should say that biglaw is all about prestige. Top tier law firms are much more name whorey than top tier IB, for example. However, if you're not aiming for big firms and you're staying local, T14 (the 'national' brands) matter much, much less.

IB is far more prestige-whore-y than law. There's an anecdote about a major hedge fund hiring manager talking about where they hire from. He was like "mostly Harvard and Wharton... We have a Yale grad these year, we're keeping a close eye on him."

[tedalbany]

Yeah, it would help if our pre-law advisor had a clue, too. We took a practice LSAT at the first meeting I went to, and everyone scored in the low/mid 140s. I didn't want to tell everyone what I got and sound stuck up so I said it was a 155 (not that it was really that great anyway). The advisor acted like I was some kind of god, and asked if I wanted to be in charge of the LSAT study group. She told everyone that any score in the 150s is "golden." Last year's pre-law society president graduated and now goes to John Marshall, and the advisor talks to us about him like he's some notable alumni because of it.

Do you go to a TTT UG or something?

Oh yeah. Bullshit state school. For free, though.

Word. I went to flagship state and the only person from a pre-law class I know is in law school goes to Barry Law.

[tedalbany]

I mean, she's not wrong in principle, but her connections obviously won't cut it.

But if you have some REAL connections--like if your dad is a hiring partner or runs his own firm, you ARE set no matter where you go.

For example, you could be this girl:

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-29/ente ... PM:SHOWBIZ

She is a second-generation celebrity lawyer. Her father, Dennis Wasser, handles the family affairs of studio moguls and billionaires. She works at his firm, giving the families of broken-hearted rockers and TV and movie stars the same TLC her father showers on their bosses.

I saw this on CNN a long time ago. Your friend isn't in her situation but there are people who are...

So. Jealous.

To echo: if daddy runs the firm, than yeah you're set. But if you just have a great ability to schmooze and loose connections, name does matter. A lot. Law is all about prestige (as is, say, management consulting). There are some sectors, like IB and medicine where it doesn't matter that much where you went as long as you pound pavement or hit the books. But not law.

Edit: I should say that biglaw is all about prestige. Top tier law firms are much more name whorey than top tier IB, for example. However, if you're not aiming for big firms and you're staying local, T14 (the 'national' brands) matter much, much less.

IB is far more prestige-whore-y than law. There's an anecdote about a major hedge fund hiring manager talking about where they hire from. He was like "mostly Harvard and Wharton... We have a Yale grad these year, we're keeping a close eye on him."

TBF Yale business isn't that great, sometimes not even top 10.

[thelawyler]

Tell her it's a good thing she knows you then - to show her the light.

I have many moments of this. Where I want to tell people they are wrong. I usually offer to give candid advice about job prospects, LSAT prep, etc and somewhere in there I will link to Law School Transparency, maybe that google spread (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... d3c&gid=11), and TLS. Hopefully with due diligence they will get the clue.

[Paraflam]

I think some of it is just willful ignorance. I've tried explaining it to a couple people in pre-law society before, and none of them cared; all they want is the degree so that mommy and daddy can brag that their kid's a lawyer. One of the guys I talked to said his GPA is only about 2.5, but he's just "gonna write a bomb ass personal statement to make up for it." You can't talk sense into some of these people.

[FlanAl]

I think it really depends on where you are and how close she actually is with her uncle, how high up/connected he is etc.. I had lawyers in my hometown tell me that law is purely a networking game. In so many words I basically picked up that they really thought going to the local T2 and networking was the only way to get a job in that city. The more I learn about it, it really seems like outside of big law its all about networking. I think there are definitely cases where people who go to a T2 but have an uncle who is a judge are probably better off than people at t14s with no family hook ups.

[catholicgirl]

I think some of it is just willful ignorance. I've tried explaining it to a couple people in pre-law society before, and none of them cared; all they want is the degree so that mommy and daddy can brag that their kid's a lawyer. One of the guys I talked to said his GPA is only about 2.5, but he's just "gonna write a bomb ass personal statement to make up for it." You can't talk sense into some of these people.

Yeah, I've just given up. Since my school is very science heavy, every one who can't hack it in Ochem assumes they can then be a lawyer as a back-up plan. Because we all know everyone who graduates from law school gets a good job.

[MrPapagiorgio]

Outside immediately family members, no connections are guaranteed. Having said that, your network is just as important as the degree on your wall. It is true that attending a "T14" school will open many doors for you, especially via OCI. But an ability to network is just as important. My 1L summer job search yielded very little fruit (2 offers and they were shitty unpaid public interest gigs) and I'm coming from a T30. So I contacted few guys I met and became friendly with over 7 years of caddying for them at a country club. I received an offer from all 5 five of them. Point being that connections help and coming from a good school helps. But having both is especially useful to advancing your career.

[rayiner]

TBF Yale business isn't that great, sometimes not even top 10.

It was Yale UG. :-/

[Gail]

that's stupid. where you go has a direct influence on who you know. you go to law school for the alumni network as much as you go for anything else. this is stupid.