Softs for T-14 Forum

[cloudhidden]

So I am considering a retake to get into the T-14. I have a 3.7x GPA and would aim for 170+ on a third try at the LSAT. Right now I have full or near full tuition offers from schools clustered around 50ish ranking. The TLS consensus has been, excluding URM or truly spectacular soft, having the right numbers is necessary to get into your choice school. My question concerns how sufficient numbers are for the T-14? A look at lawschoolnumbers.com displays a sea of yellow and green dots for 3.7+ and 170+ applicants. I have been away from school for a few years, however, I have had odd end jobs to sustain myself in the meantime because I knew that I wanted to eventually go to law school. Additionally, I was not especially involved in undergrad nor do I have extensive volunteer experience. Given that I retake and attain my goal, can I still get shut out of the T-14? Can a great PS become a sufficient soft in itself? Judging by lawschoolnumbers.com, I have outperformed my numbers at a few schools this cycle in terms of scholarship money, so I feel that my PS or LOR may have been strong. However, I realize that the T-14 is an entirely different ball game. Does this at all complicate a decision to retake, or does LSAT still trump all?

[Gail]

One thing to consider is that the sea of yellow that you see comes from people who blanketed the top 20. Here are some examples:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/justonemoregame/jd
(rejected at Cornell an Berkley, accepted at UVA, waitlisted at DMP)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Lawbro/jd
(waitlisted at GTown, accepted at Cornell)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/dukesfo/jd
(waitlisted at Cornell, accepted at GTown)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/loLSAT/jd
(WL at UVA and Berkley, accepted a Penn, Michigan, and Cornell)


In short. Blanket the t14. Hope that one bites. It isn't perfect and it is certainly possible that you're shut out of the t14 with a 170/3.7.

But if after 3 you can't crack the 170, I think it might have always been out of reach unless there as something particularly wrong with your approach.

[Gail]

By the way. With your GPA, 168 is probably possible for Cornell. If you want biglaw, Cornell is an awesome choice. I think Cornell is an underrated school.

[DaftAndDirect]

What's your current LSAT?

[cloudhidden]

One thing to consider is that the sea of yellow that you see comes from people who blanketed the top 20. Here are some examples:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/justonemoregame/jd
(rejected at Cornell an Berkley, accepted at UVA, waitlisted at DMP)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Lawbro/jd
(waitlisted at GTown, accepted at Cornell)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/dukesfo/jd
(waitlisted at Cornell, accepted at GTown)

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/loLSAT/jd
(WL at UVA and Berkley, accepted a Penn, Michigan, and Cornell)


In short. Blanket the t14. Hope that one bites. It isn't perfect and it is certainly possible that you're shut out of the t14 with a 170/3.7.

But if after 3 you can't crack the 170, I think it might have always been out of reach unless there as something particularly wrong with your approach.

I have heard the age old advice to cast a wide net, and assuming that I do very well on a retake, I might apply across the T20. It just seems that the correlation between above median numbers and admission gets weaker the higher up the ranking you go and especially at T14. I'm also wondering how much a well-polished application counts. I took a lot of time with my apps and PS in elaborating upon the "softs" that I do have this cycle and it seems to have greatly benefited my scholly offers. I feel that the importance of the application for those without impressive softs only increases at the most selective schools. Of course there's no way to guarantee that a school bites, but I'm hoping that the odds are in my favor with the right LSAT score.

[cloudhidden]

What's your current LSAT?

I am currently in the mid 160 range. I have been fortunate enough to receive massive scholarships at some fringe tier 1 schools. My research indicates that that's not too uncommon though, but that I also got the high-end benefit of the doubt at a few places. It's tough to justify passing up such an opportunity, even though TLS has persuaded me about the regional limitations and large employment differentials among schools.

[Doorkeeper]

What's your current LSAT?

I am currently in the mid 160 range. I have been fortunate enough to receive massive scholarships at some fringe tier 1 schools. My research indicates that that's not too uncommon though, but that I also got the high-end benefit of the doubt at a few places. It's tough to justify passing up such an opportunity, even though TLS has persuaded me about the regional limitations and large employment differentials among schools.

If you feel like you can do better on the LSAT, there is no reason not to wait a year, retake, and reapply. The difference between a T50 and a T14 is huge for employment purposes.

[Gail]

I also feel like it depends where you're at on the LSAT. If you have a 167, definitely retake because even if you are maxed out for brainpower, scoring 1 point higher is not beyond the realm of possibility and opens up a lot of doors elsewhere. Same with 166, only you're aiming for 2 points.


It's at 160-165 that I don't think it's super helpful.

It's a personal decision though. If you have an awesome scholarship and want to go now, then go now. Tier 1 is still good. You won't be laughed at for only attending Tulane or SMU if everyone knows that you did it because of a large scholarship.

[Real Madrid]

If you have the money to burn and get a 170+, you can always ED to UVA. They love to take splitters and reverse-splitters to inflate their artificial medians, so you're pretty much a lock in the 170+ range.

Good luck. May the odds be ever in your favor.

[Nelson]

Once you have work experience, I think "softs" are largely irrelevant. I have medicore work experience and no softs from undergrad, but got into T6 schools this cycle. Get a 172+ and you're good to go. Your softs won't matter nearly as much as what the x is in 3.7x.