Bad 2 years, Great 2 years Forum

[jessgallison]

Hello,

My first two undergrad years weren't great. I was in a really hard bio-engineering major and frankly just didnt know what I wanted to do with my degree. I ended up averaging a 2.8 my first two years. Obviously this is really not good.

I switched to a double major in Legal Studies and History and did really well my last two years. My worst quarter was a 3.7. I realized I wanted to go to law school and stepped it up a lot. I dont think either of those majors were 'easy' but they were way bettered suited for my abilities. So the change wasnt so much an 'upward trend' as a 'complete 180'.

Im going to end up with a 3.1-3.2. I realize these grades are not going to get my into any excellent schools. My practice LSATs have been 160+ and i'm improving with practice. I want to apply to schools that have an average GPA of around 3.3-3.4. Do you think this super sharp turn around will give me a chance?

[Mr. Somebody]

You'll need a 170+ score to be competitive for the T14. If you're already testing in the 160's you have a good foundation, just keep studying.

[ThreeRivers]

My second semester I had a 0.00 (LONG story). Every other semester in UG i've had a 4.00 (besides 2 in which I received an A-). No schools cared about how I really was a 3.9+ and the conditions surrounding that semester (multiple deaths of those close to me, meant to withdrawal). The only reason I state this is because you'll just be judged by your LSAC GPA.

[Elston Gunn]

^^^ This is correct (they won't care), but that doesn't mean you should give up on getting a really good school. You can get into the 170s + work experience and get Northwestern. And, if not that, WUSTL with good money (I believe).

[wannabeadiplomat]

Try to improve your bench press. Try to get your flat bench press up to at LEAST 200 lbs. Most Ivy League schools will only accept 300+ bench presses so you most likely could not reach that high in such a short period of time. But decent schools will accept 200+ bench presses easily. Good luck with your training!

[bartleby]

nah i think they'll care at the fringe. it is a numbers game but the upward swing might dictate some waitlist acceptances or some scholarship negotiation i think

[rglifberg]

Hopefully I can give you some hope here. I am in a similar predicament as you. My first two years of college I had a 1.5 GPA. My last 2 years I grew up and killed schools getting mostly A's and a few B's. My LSAC GPA is below a 3.0. I have been wait-listed at Univ of Miami. According to Law School Predictor I had <5% chance of acceptance, and most TLS'ers would say I would be an auto-reject. I think my Personal Statement & strong LOR's helped me avoid rejection. I know I'm still not in, but my numbers are by no means exemplary. I think it's just an example of how other factors do have an important role in the admissions process. Btw I got a 158 on the LSAT, by no means crushing the test. I'm also Hispanic so I think that is helping a little too. Hopefully this gives you some hope, aim high, the worst that can happen is you get a rejection letter.

[MrAnon]

Why would an upward trajectory be important? Virtually everyone who doesn't get into a top school goes from lousy GPA to good GPA by the time they finish college. Those who go to top schools had good GPA throughout college.

[rglifberg]

Why would an upward trajectory be important? Virtually everyone who doesn't get into a top school goes from lousy GPA to good GPA by the time they finish college. Those who go to top schools had good GPA throughout college.

Because applicants are humans not just numbers? Why shouldn't applicants be reviewed as people? Everyone's different, some people mature at different rates, not to say that someone who has had straight A's all 4 years shouldn't be rewarded, but I think the review process is a little bit deeper than that.

[jessgallison]

Why would an upward trajectory be important? Virtually everyone who doesn't get into a top school goes from lousy GPA to good GPA by the time they finish college. Those who go to top schools had good GPA throughout college.

I think this comment is far stupider than my question. Its fairly unlikely that I magically got smarter. I thought that it shows that I am capable of doing A work. If I received solid Bs the whole way though then that shows that im a "b" student. I had a lot going on my first two years, including a poorly matched major and a full time job. All things considered I think a B average with a full time job in a bio-engineering major is not to shabby. I got some help, quit the job, and found what I was passionate about. Thanks, I realize people with a high GPA are better off, as they should be. I hope that sassy comment made you feel better about yourself because it certainly wasnt any help to me.

The rest of you were very helpful. Thanks for all the advise. I will focus on getting the best LSAT score I can and realize that my upward trend isnt going to help me.

[rad lulz]

.

[MrAnon]

upward trends are a dime a dozen. Getting blah grades while you rage your face or frosh and sophomore year, then getting your life together your last 2 years is a common theme.

This is all I was trying to say. I would frankly just own what you did instead of writing an addendum that says you lacked motivation and direction because you were in the wrong major. Keep in mind law school exams may turn out not to suit your abilities either since you've never taken anything like them. Then what?

[wannabeadiplomat]

My father did terrible in undergraduate school his first two years but came back stronger his last two, very similar to yourself. And get this! He got accepted into a decent law school, performed quite well there, became a lawyer, and has been a District and Circuit Court Judge for over twenty freaking years! So there is great hope for you most certainly.

[Mal Reynolds]

My father did terrible in undergraduate school his first two years but came back stronger his last two, very similar to yourself. And get this! He got accepted into a decent law school, performed quite well there, became a lawyer, and has been a District and Circuit Court Judge for over twenty freaking years! So there is great hope for you most certainly.

This is very heartening because from all the research I have done, law school admissions and employment are identical to how they were twenty years ago.

[wannabeadiplomat]

Yes, indeed. He told me that he didn't even have a 3.0 GPA when he graduated from UG. I think he said it was like a 2.8 or 2.9 or something. Basically he told me that he did so poorly in the beginning that his excellent last two years could not even bring his GPA up to a 3.0.

[Jaeger]

Yes, indeed. He told me that he didn't even have a 3.0 GPA when he graduated from UG. I think he said it was like a 2.8 or 2.9 or something. Basically he told me that he did so poorly in the beginning that his excellent last two years could not even bring his GPA up to a 3.0.

That's so amazing! This should be stickied so everyone can see the glass as half full!

[jessgallison]

Hahaha, then I guess I want to be your dad when I grow up (kidding kidding). That is heartening. I guess since i'm a history major I should pray that, just this once, history really does repeat itself.

Unfortunately there is a pretty obvious follow up question floating around here. Assuming they DON'T take the upward trend into account, do I even really have a chance? I'm not hoping for super great schools (so maybe this is the wrong forum) but I was hoping for 75-100 type programs. A 3.0ish GPA is not good.

Even if I DO get into those programs, are they worth attending? I don't want to be unemployable AND in debt. I cant imagine giving up on the only career i've imagined for myself, but I want to be realistic.

[t14fanboy]

Get a 170+ and go to a t14.

[rad lulz]

.

[MrAnon]

I guess there is a pretty obvious follow up question floating around here. Assuming they DON'T take the upward trend into account, do I even really have a chance? Im not hoping for super great schools (so maybe this is the wrong forum) but I was hoping for 75-100 type programs. A 3.0ish GPA is not good.

Even if I DO get into those programs, are they worth attending? I don't want to be unemployable AND in debt. I cant imagine giving up on the only career i've imagined for myself, but I want to be realistic.

You will get into a school, guaranteed. Your GPA could be 2.2 and somewhere a law school will take you

For the school you can get into with a 3.0, well depending on your LSAT, its still possibly worth going to. In my opinion, a school in the T40 is still worth it, and you can get into one of these.

[t14fanboy]

I guess there is a pretty obvious follow up question floating around here. Assuming they DON'T take the upward trend into account, do I even really have a chance? Im not hoping for super great schools (so maybe this is the wrong forum) but I was hoping for 75-100 type programs. A 3.0ish GPA is not good.

Even if I DO get into those programs, are they worth attending? I don't want to be unemployable AND in debt. I cant imagine giving up on the only career i've imagined for myself, but I want to be realistic.

You will get into a school, guaranteed. Your GPA could be 2.2 and somewhere a law school will take you

For the school you can get into with a 3.0, well depending on your LSAT, its still possibly worth going to. In my opinion, a school in the T40 is still worth it, and you can get into one of these.

Go play around with lawschoolnumbers.com when you have the chance.

[CodyRuegger]

You'll really want to score 172+ to get into the top 20. You can do it, but I wouldn't stop until you hit a 172 or better. I've got a 3.35, by the way, so I know what you're going through.

[bartleby]

upward trends are a dime a dozen. Getting blah grades while you rage your face or frosh and sophomore year, then getting your life together your last 2 years is a common theme.

This is all I was trying to say. I would frankly just own what you did instead of writing an addendum that says you lacked motivation and direction because you were in the wrong major. Keep in mind law school exams may turn out not to suit your abilities either since you've never taken anything like them. Then what?

Don't even say that you took the wrong major or anything like that. In an addendum, I would just address it as in two sentences like "I did poorly my freshman and sophomore year because I lacked maturity and foresight." nobody gives a shit what your reasons were - and they might come off as excuses - my best friend was killed in a car accident my first year of college and i was sad but decided it was better to just leave that shit off and let the grades speak for themselves