Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am serious Forum

[sublimejhn]

I have been reading these forums for some time now, and I am fairly certain the title of this post alone is going to cause half the people on here to ignore me and most of the other half to flame me, but for the select few that keep reading and can offer some actual advice I will go ahead and ask anyway!! I have a feeling this is going to be long, so I apologize in advance.

So to start, I do realize that PSoL is an unranked, for-profit law school with no reputation within the legal community. As such, I do understand why it would generally be considered a poor choice to go there for the average person, and the only reason I am asking about it in the first place instead of just registering is because I have my own reservations about the school as a result of it's status. However, there have been a few people that have graduated from that school and many other TTTTs that have gone on to do quite well for themselves, and I'd like to believe that under the right circumstances these schools do have their place. I'm just trying to figure out if I fall into that small category of people that could wind up gainfully employed were I to attend PSoL, and hopefully someone here could help me out with that.

I'll give a bit of a background on myself. I am 29 years old, and just had my first child. I have always taken an interest in law, and since highschool it has been my goal to become an attorney. That being said, I admittedly am a bit of a slacker and my grades have never been anything spectacular since I tend to do alright while putting in no work to my schooling. Obviously not the best choice, but at the time I was in college I was happy to coast by without really trying.

Either way, I do not come from a wealthy family and I don't think I could have just gone to college and law school straight out of high school anyway, since I would have had no way to support myself. Instead I went into the Army, then used my GI Bill along with working 30+ hours a week to go to college (Michigan State). After graduation I became a police officer with the Phoenix Police Department.

Which brings me to today. I love my job and I get paid quite well for doing it. I am definitely not one that needs a lot of money to be happy, and I don't want to become an attorney just because I have some unrealistic delusions that I will become wealthy beyond belief just because I have a JD. I intend to put in my time and retire from the PD, at which point I would like to pursue a second career as an attorney. I have no interest in Biglaw, just a city prosecutor position. By the time I would do this we would already be receiving my pension from the PD along with my wife's (she's a teacher), so I would not need a great deal of money to make ends meet. I want this only for a second career, so that I can continue with a job that looks at the law from a different perspective.

While I would love to know that I accomplished the goals I set out to do in life, I am in no way willing to jeopardize my current career in some desperate hope to be an attorney that may never pan out anyway either. Therefore, I would not be willing to leave the Phoenix area, nor would I be willing to go to school full time because I would clearly need to take a hiatus from my job to do so. So my options for a part-time law school in the Phoenix area? PSoL. That's it, it's the only school with a part time program by me.

Now I would just forget about law school if that was my only option under normal circumstance, but with my situation I would like to believe my circumstance are far from normal. The Phoenix Police Department has a legal unit, which has several officers that are bar certified working for them, many acting in a dual capacity as police and attorneys. This of course should give anyone on that unit a good in for a career with the prosecutor's office later on. Admittedly, I don't know too much about the legal unit or what it takes to get on at this time, but to the best of my knowledge if you are an officer that is bar certified in AZ it should be fairly easy. I have the names of a few officers on the legal team already and I will be asking them some questions here in the coming days as well.

I am still in the start of my career. I currently have 3 years on, so I would like to continue with patrol for several more years before I would even consider transferring to legal anyway. This gives me ample time to get through law school in the mean time. I am just getting sick of going back and forth on my plans though, and wanted some type of guidance. Every time I think I would like to go through with it, I think of going to PSoL and I read these forums and I get scared off. I will say this though, one thing that does keep me wishing to proceed with these plans is at the end of the day, even if things don't work out at least I will have tried and can say I went to law school. As I mentioned earlier, I just had my first child, a daughter. My parents barely graduated highschool, and my wife's parents were highschool dropouts. My wife has a masters, and I currently have my bachelor's. We both currently live better than either of our parents ever did as a result. I would like to set an example for my daughter and I would like her to do even better than us, and even the act of going to law school alone would make me feel I've given her a higher bar to meet. So there are factors that I have considered in this decision that have lead me to the school that aren't financial as well. Whether or not these factors are enough to make me blow a substantial amount of money on something that may never see a positive gain though is definitely debatable.

So this is where I sit. Does anyone feel that it would be worth my time going to PSoL, or in general is it just accepted that nobody should go there? I did take the LSAT but I didn't study for it other than taking some practice exams I found online. I kinda choked on the actual test and made some DUMB mistakes (reading comprehension I could have sworn I was done and never even read the last passage, realized it with a minute left and just had to randomly bubble in 7 answers). I ended up with a 159 and my undergrad is 3.28. Yes, I could take the test and do much better if I studied I'm sure, but I just took it to see how I'd do and I'm not gonna worry about retaking in the near future. I don't really even think retaking it would matter anyway since there are no other schools I could consider and I am sure these numbers would easily get me into PSoL. I am NOT leaving a 65k/year job to go to ASU while leaving my family broke and me quite possibly walking out unemployed. It's part-time or nothing for me.

For the two people that read this entire abomination of a post, thank you. Any help you could give would be appreciated. I don't mind hearing, "Do not go to PSoL," so long as the person saying this is familiar with my particular set of circumstances and is trying to make a valid opinion on the likelihood of my career prospects down the road, not just reading the name of the school and shooting it down. This is definitely a decision I need some help with.

[furcifer]

Whatever college works best for you. Go for it.

I'll be honest, at first I thought that meant UOP was going the online JD way like they do in CA, but I glanced at their site and their not, which is good. ABA obviously is better.

All ABA schools get you into the same bar exams. The rest is up to you.
It sounds like you have a solid enough game plan, I say roll with it.

PS

Just fair to warn you, the police vets tend to do the worst in class. Something to do with assuming them know the law the whole first year untill they get their class ranking and realize that bottom 10% isn't cool. Reminds me of the guys who had prior weapons training before basic training in the Army, they took the longest to train since they "knew it all" already.
You sound fresh enough, you should still know which way is up. Good luck.

[FryBreadPower]

I appreciate your sincerity; it's refreshing.

I think you have to carefully take a look at the costs and benefits. How badly do you want to study law and how likely is it that graduating from this kind of school will allow you to follow some path through the attorney's office through your police department (as you have mentioned in your post). If its just, "an OK chance" than is it really worth it? Or, is it an "absolute certainty provided you pass the bar"?

Beyond evaluating the costs of attending an institution for three years you also have to think of the opportunity cost of that time spent studying law -- what else could you have been using that time? Personally, if it were me, I wouldn't deem it a worthy investment. But obviously, to each their own. It seems like you have a good perspective on things and I'm sure you'll make whatever choice is best for you.

[nsbane]

You spent a lot of paragraphs explaining your personal journey, but I'm still not clear one one thing: Why would they hire you over someone who went to an accredited school?

Working in the legal unit of a PD will not cut it my friend. I worked in a state prosecutor's office, and someone with a Phoenix law degree approached my co-worker and took him out to lunch. My friend tried to put it to him gently. Your application process to Phoenix law school is swiping your credit card. Anyone who looks at your application is going to assume you couldn't make the cut at any other law school and had to apply to a school that will take anyone willing to pay the bill.

Don't believe me? Find someone at your prosecutor's office, call them up and take them out to coffee. Ask them.

I'm also really skeptical that you think working in the legal unit of the PD is your in to being a prosecutor. If you haven't heard anything from anybody suggesting that's the way in, and this is you guessing, then I'm going to say your guess is wrong.

[banjo]

I am sympathetic to your circumstances, but is there any way you could do the Flexible Schedule program at ASU? http://www.law.asu.edu/admissions/Admis ... ption.aspx

I just googled this now, so I don't know all the details. Looks like you would have to take a hiatus from work for the first year but can return to work for the second and third years.

[romothesavior]

OP, I also appreciate the sincerity and can certainly sympathize with your situation. Unfortunately, I have to echo a few other posters and say that this would probably be a poor decision. For-profit law schools are rip-offs, and this school is just a few years old and was just recently accredited. It doesn't just have "no reputation" in the legal community; it has a poor one. For almost everyone, it's not likely to pan out into a worthwhile investment. It sounds like you have a family and a daughter to care for, and wasting money on a law degree could be a huge mistake.

However, your situation does sound a bit unique. If you are able to go to school at Phoenix and take on little to no debt, and then work in the legal department with the police force, then perhaps it could pan out. Obviously I am not qualified to comment on that opportunity (I doubt anyone on TLS really is), so I would try to have some frank conversations with the attorneys in the legal unit. See what they think of going to law school at Phoenix and the odds you would have of getting into the department there. I think the biggest issue with your plan is that it is very narrow. What if you can't get in with this legal unit? Then what? Your Phoenix law degree probably won't be worth the paper it is printed on if you have to go into private practice to use it.

I'd talk to some attorneys in your area and see what they say. Good luck.

[lawhaus]

Go get an ABA-approved degree and pursue your dream career. Why unnecessarily handicap yourself with a degree from PSoL?

[STLMizzou]

First, I admire your dedication. Both being ex-military and currently serving on the police force is commendable. I come from a similar background, and am the first male to graduate college from my dad’s side of the family.

That said, I simply don’t think PSoL will be worth the time and money for what you hope to achieve from it. Being a public prosecutor in a larger city is competitive, and even with your experience on the police force I do not know if you would be hired over a graduate from nearby ASU or Arizona, both respectable southwest law schools. I also don’t know if you would be qualified to take the bar in your state with that degree, which is something to look into.

My advice? Advance your career in the force without that degree. Your goals of what you want to do with your JD are so far off, that I would wait it out and see where life takes you. Maybe an opportunity will arise for you to move to a city with an ABA accredited university that offers part-time. When that time comes, you are obviously intelligent enough to study for the LSAT and do really well on it, mitigating the COA to near nothing.

[mrtoren]

Wait until the end of your career to see if you still want to do this. Not only will you forget most of the material over the years and lose competitiveness, but studying is nearly a full-time job for law students...even for part-timers. You have a growing family who needs you; be with them. By the end of your career, your children should be grown up to the point where you have free-time to burn. As an aside, I interned for a smaller state's attorney's office that hired a captain from the state troopers after thirty years of service. I believe he actually retired and then attended law school full-time. Kids were gone so he was able to live off of his pension while he went. Although he attended a TTTT and brought an officer's mentality to the job, he did very well for himself. Keep in mind that said individual was near the top of his class and extremely personable though.

[bp shinners]

I have to agree with the rest. You have a great background, work experience, and you come across as intelligent in your post. Why hamstring yourself by going to a law school that will create such a presumption against hiring you?

[landla]

I was planning on writing a response quite similar to many of the prior posters.

First of all, I admire your honesty and dedication, both in your service to the country/community and to your personal life goals.

With that said, I think that you might want to do a bit more research into the matter - not online research but talking to people. If you can set up information interviews (or, less formally, grab coffee with) people in the PD legal department and, even better, your local prosecutor's office, I think you'll find out how likely your chances will be. I'm not saying that this plan won't work; I'm saying that I don't know and think you should ask people who do the hiring and have experience before putting your time, your money, and your family's emotions into it. If the flex program that was mentioned above is a possibility (maybe if you discuss it with the legal department, they will let you take the first year off to pursue it granted you'll return or some such).

I don't know a great deal about these schools in general; as a previous poster said, I thought it might be an online law school until going to the website and reading through the thread fully. I would suggest that you study for and retake the LSAT - pay for a prep course (whether one of the brand name ones or, if you are self-motivated, a lesser known but online one such as Knewton) and do self study - because no matter which path to law school you take, it will end up rewarding you with scholarship, lessening any financial burden on your family.

Since you are at the beginning of your PD career and seem to not want to pursue law for a great number of years, I would suggest talking to the different people now but waiting for law school for another few years. You never know where life may take you - you might move or change your mind. That also gives you a few more years to see how the PSoL is regarded in your area - which is all you care about - since it doesn't sound like it has really found a solid reputation yet.

Good luck! Again, I think you have a great plan that you should follow, just with some more information from the departments you are looking to hire you (as you mention in your post).

[BigTimeJewLawyer2B]

Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

[mattviphky]

Wait until the end of your career to see if you still want to do this. Not only will you forget most of the material over the years and lose competitiveness, but studying is nearly a full-time job for law students...even for part-timers. You have a growing family who needs you; be with them. By the end of your career, your children should be grown up to the point where you have free-time to burn. As an aside, I interned for a smaller state's attorney's office that hired a captain from the state troopers after thirty years of service. I believe he actually retired and then attended law school full-time. Kids were gone so he was able to live off of his pension while he went. Although he attended a TTTT and brought an officer's mentality to the job, he did very well for himself. Keep in mind that said individual was near the top of his class and extremely personable though.

This. Why do it now? Enjoy your young family now, law school will always be there. I hate saying the latter part, but it is probably easier to absorb when you have a good paying gig with the PD and a young kid. Also, just saw that ASU is in Tempe, which is adjacent to Phoenix. Work for a while and then go there when you are too old for that shit.

[furcifer]

People keep posting about online law schools, guys WTF it's not online. I get it, I assumed it online like UOP but it's on campus, and it ABA. The fact that she is applying to be campus police on campus should tell you there is a campus.

Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

[furcifer]

The Phoenix School of Law (also referred to as PhoenixLaw) is a private, for-profit law school located in Phoenix, Arizona. Founded in 2005 and accredited by the American Bar Association in 2010,[2] PhoenixLaw is the only private law school in Arizona. The school is not affiliated with the similarly named University of Phoenix.

-It is fun to watch the analytical skills and assumption levels of legal scholars.

[gaud]

There are plenty of posters from AZ, myself included, who would advise against attending this school. The market here isn't that great and it will be hard to compete against local grads from schools with better reputations and alumni networks (ASU and UofA). That being said, I DO know of a PSOL grad who landed a great gig clerking for a judge, however, I feel like her case is quite unusual. So, it's not impossible to get a good job from there.. but it won't be easy.

[furcifer]

Heck, it's better than going online and flying at CA to take that "mini-bar". The only minibars I like are full of Rum!

There are plenty of posters from AZ, myself included, who would advise against attending this school. The market here isn't that great and it will be hard to compete against local grads from schools with better reputations and alumni networks (ASU and UofA). That being said, I DO know of a PSOL grad who landed a great gig clerking for a judge, however, I feel like her case is quite unusual. So, it's not impossible to get a good job from there.. but it won't be easy.

[shredderrrrrr]

People keep posting about online law schools, guys WTF it's not online. I get it, I assumed it online like UOP but it's on campus, and it ABA. The fact that she is applying to be campus police on campus should tell you there is a campus.

Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

The Phoenix School of Law (also referred to as PhoenixLaw) is a private, for-profit law school located in Phoenix, Arizona. Founded in 2005 and accredited by the American Bar Association in 2010,[2] PhoenixLaw is the only private law school in Arizona. The school is not affiliated with the similarly named University of Phoenix.

-It is fun to watch the analytical skills and assumption levels of legal scholars.

Lol huh? Are you a troll?

a. No one ever said PSoL is an online school. Even the post you quoted never explicitly said whether or not they were referring to PSoL as online or not...they just said online schools were good.

b. The OP is a male, not female.

c. The OP never said anything about campus police.

Oh, the irony of you criticizing the analytical skills of other posters...

[furcifer]

Said analytical skills at work.......gotta love it......

#1.
nsbane Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:27 am



Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 136 You spent a lot of paragraphs explaining your personal journey, but I'm still not clear one one thing: Why would they hire you over someone who went to an accredited school?



#2.
lawhaus Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:09 am



Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 27 Go get an ABA-approved degree and pursue your dream career. Why unnecessarily handicap yourself with a degree from PSoL?

#3
BigTimeJewLawyer2B Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:36 pm



Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:56 pm
Posts: 5 Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

People keep posting about online law schools, guys WTF it's not online. I get it, I assumed it online like UOP but it's on campus, and it ABA. The fact that she is applying to be campus police on campus should tell you there is a campus.

Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

The Phoenix School of Law (also referred to as PhoenixLaw) is a private, for-profit law school located in Phoenix, Arizona. Founded in 2005 and accredited by the American Bar Association in 2010,[2] PhoenixLaw is the only private law school in Arizona. The school is not affiliated with the similarly named University of Phoenix.

-It is fun to watch the analytical skills and assumption levels of legal scholars.

Lol huh? Are you a troll?

a. No one ever said PSoL is an online school. Even the post you quoted never explicitly said whether or not they were referring to PSoL as online or not...they just said online schools were good.

b. The OP is a male, not female.

c. The OP never said anything about campus police.

Oh, the irony of you criticizing the analytical skills of other posters...

[sunynp]

You will not get the future you want with this degree. Even for free, I wouldn't go there. I wouldn't go there even if they paid.

[shredderrrrrr]

Said analytical skills at work.......gotta love it......

#1.
nsbane Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:27 am



Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 136 You spent a lot of paragraphs explaining your personal journey, but I'm still not clear one one thing: Why would they hire you over someone who went to an accredited school?



#2.
lawhaus Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:09 am



Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:08 pm
Posts: 27 Go get an ABA-approved degree and pursue your dream career. Why unnecessarily handicap yourself with a degree from PSoL?

#3
BigTimeJewLawyer2B Post subject: Re: Phoenix School of Law- And yes I am seriousPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:36 pm



Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:56 pm
Posts: 5 Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

People keep posting about online law schools, guys WTF it's not online. I get it, I assumed it online like UOP but it's on campus, and it ABA. The fact that she is applying to be campus police on campus should tell you there is a campus.

Well, your post was WAY TOO LONG first off. Having said that, I think that online education is a great thing and the way of the future. Within a decade hopefully every school will offer an online alternative.

If UP is best for you, go for it-but what about night school at another law school-and there are also many other law schools which offer online degrees.

The Phoenix School of Law (also referred to as PhoenixLaw) is a private, for-profit law school located in Phoenix, Arizona. Founded in 2005 and accredited by the American Bar Association in 2010,[2] PhoenixLaw is the only private law school in Arizona. The school is not affiliated with the similarly named University of Phoenix.

-It is fun to watch the analytical skills and assumption levels of legal scholars.

Lol huh? Are you a troll?

a. No one ever said PSoL is an online school. Even the post you quoted never explicitly said whether or not they were referring to PSoL as online or not...they just said online schools were good.

b. The OP is a male, not female.

c. The OP never said anything about campus police.

Oh, the irony of you criticizing the analytical skills of other posters...

I'm trying not to take over this guy's thread, but what in the world are you talking about? First of all, you need to learn how to format your comments and quote. I can hardly make out what you're trying to say. Also, the quote you're responding to is supposed to go first.

But what do #1 #2 and #3 have anything to do with what I said? I already commented about #3, and #1 and #2 just talk about accreditation. Non-accredited/Non-ABA approved schools =/= online schools.

I think I'm being trolled...

[furcifer]

Stupid people rarely realize they are stupid. Congrats.

True non-aba is not always online, but it is an ABA school and others keep making unaccredited posts, and at least one refered to online(thus why responded in kind).

Not hard dude. Not hard.

[thederangedwang]

Stupid people rarely realize they are stupid. Congrats.

True non-aba is not always online, but it is an ABA school and others keep making unaccredited posts, and at least one refered to online(thus why responded in kind).

Not hard dude. Not hard.

your argument is kinda hard to follow....and like others have said..you suck with quote formatting

and the bolded part....

[furcifer]

Stupid people rarely realize they are stupid. Congrats.

True non-aba is not always online, but it is an ABA school and others keep making unaccredited posts, and at least one refered to online(thus why responded in kind).

Not hard dude. Not hard.

your argument is kinda hard to follow....and like others have said..you suck with quote formatting

and the bolded part....

Guess I can't get into any online colleges or down load porn like all the cool kids then, dang.

Heavy things are only heavy to those who can not lift them.
If you can't follow something that easy, it's on you. (true about the quoting part though, new to this whole nerd forum thing, can you tell?)

[Danteshek]

Just go to law school AFTER you retire. And for goodness sake please do not send your tuition dollars to a private equity firm
http://www.sterlingpartners.com/