Late HLS Application Forum

[lsat_180]

How bad is it to submit to HLS around late January/Feb. 1 itself, with around a 3.8 and an LSAT in the high 160s? Any advice on what my chances would be?

[johansantana21]

You were just wasting $50 either way.

[rinkrat19]

Barely over 25th% GPA and below 25th% LSAT? Your chances were slim-to-none on October 1, let alone Jan/Feb.

[lsat_180]

Quite negative replies, how much do you think the numbers are the most important thing/the only thing that matters at harvard? any other responses on how much my chances would go down from sept/oct to late jan/feb? under what circumstances would one have a chance with those numbers (not an underrepresented minority)

[johansantana21]

Quite negative replies, how much do you think the numbers are the most important thing/the only thing that matters at harvard? any other responses on how much my chances would go down from sept/oct to late jan/feb? under what circumstances would one have a chance with those numbers (not an underrepresented minority)

You have 0 chance.

0 chance.

Let me repeat that once more.

0 chance.

[oaken]

please don't feed the troll

[lsat_180]

Err, ok. So stupid question, but am I the troll or is the "zero chance" guy the troll? Either way, whatever.

Are there any other people who would have insight on who (besides urms) makes up the 25 or so percent of people who do get in with these numbers? Or even better what sorts of personal statements these people wrote to get them in? Related to this, are there examples of successful personal statements for harvard law school on this board somewhere? Also, could I ask what the "zero chance" responder's background is (ie, numbers, where you're in school ,etc)

[johansantana21]

Err, ok. So stupid question, but am I the troll or is the "zero chance" guy the troll? Either way, whatever.

Are there any other people who would have insight on who (besides urms) makes up the 25 or so percent of people who do get in with these numbers? Or even better what sorts of personal statements these people wrote to get them in? Related to this, are there examples of successful personal statements for harvard law school on this board somewhere? Also, could I ask what the "zero chance" responder's background is (ie, numbers, where you're in school ,etc)

Why does it matter where I go to school at.

Anyways you have 0% shot, retake the LSAT or aim for a more realistic school.

[decaf735]

I'm a 0L.

You have 0 chance.

[lsat_180]

Anyone else? I have to ask, are people just being mean or rude on purpose at this point? First of all, a 3.8 is around Harvard's median so half the people they admit are below this range and a quarter of the people they admit have lsats below 170. So my chances are definitely not zero (or are they just zero if I apply at the latest point in the cycle)? And what about at Stanford/Yale? These schools are not as time sensitive or as numbers based, correct?

[JamMasterJ]

Anyone else? I have to ask, are people just being mean or rude on purpose at this point? First of all, a 3.8 is around Harvard's median so half the people they admit are below this range and a quarter of the people they admit have lsats below 170. So my chances are definitely not zero (or are they just zero if I apply at the latest point in the cycle)? And what about at Stanford/Yale? These schools are not as time sensitive or as numbers based, correct?

in general, applying later is bad at schools that have rolling admissions (like Harvard). In your case, there was no way you were getting in regardless of when you apply.

also, if you can't figure out who the troll is, you are the troll

[yankees42789]

Most of the people admitted to HYS with below 25% LSAT/GPAs are either URMs or are splitters who have either their LSAT or GPA below the 25% and the other above the 75%. With an LSAT below H's 25th and a below median GPA, your odds are unfortunately very slim at Harvard and pretty much equally as unlikely at Yale and Stanford, as well. Sorry!

[ladybug89]

Yeah, splitters and URMs are TCR - take a look at LSN for last cycle (http://harvard.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1011/); everyone with a below 170 LSAT is a URM or has a very high GPA. If you're super set on Harvard and decide to wait a year/retake, I found the "50 successful Harvard Law School personal statements" book to be quite useful. Not for "types" of essays per se, but just to see what works and what doesn't.

[ladybug89]

Also, I don't buy that you would have had ZEROCHANCE no matter when you applied. We don't know you; it's possible you have amazing softs, but regardless submitting in late January does make the odds very low. Best of luck to you though, and sorry for the rude people.

[viacavour]

I'm sorry for all the people being rude in here but you should know that with those stats you have almost no chance at all.

I have the same GPA as you and a higher LSAT and I re-took because I knew that with a GPA below their median I needed a STELLAR LSAT (174+) to have a half decent shot. I go to another Ivy and have quite good softs but I'm being realistic, knowing that unless my December score is better than my October I have almost no chance.

As for Yale - applying late won't hurt you as much since they don't really do rolling admissions, but your stats just make it a waste of $100. Same at Stanford - yes they like GPAs but yours (and mine) are not fantastic.

I'm sorry to be harsh but there's no point in you wasting ~ $300. If you are serious about HYS you need to retake the LSAT and score above 170.

Oh also I applied late-ish, first week in December (I guess late by TLS standards, regular by real world standards), my LSN is 'pingrin' if you want to watch my cycle. I hope this helped, feel free to pm me.

[DoubleChecks]

For someone who joined in March 2008, OP doesn't seem too familiar with TLS or the law school admissions process for that matter. Some posters were a bit mean, and zero % chance is obviously hyperbole, but regardless of when you apply OP, your shot at HLS (and probably SLS/YLS) is very, very low. Jan/Feb just cuts it down even more. The people who responded that the below 25% numbers are either made up of URMs or extreme splitters (think 3.6 GPA/180 LSAT -- though a lot of these types don't get in either) had the correct response.

Maybe you're holding back essential information that would make you stand out a bit more...like a crazy soft. But I mean notable...not I worked at a Senator's office. I mean like, Olympic medalist or Ph.D in biomedical engineering that just helped come up with a new way to help battle cancer. Barring that, I can't imagine why your app would stand out any more than most people in your position (and virtually everyone in your position would be dinged at HYS).

[soj]

With those stats and a late application, even T14 might be a stretch, let alone HLS. Why don't you retake for the 170s and apply early next cycle?

[paratactical]

Softs that might overcome those numbers and get you into Harvard Law anyway:

- Nobel Prize winner
- World famous, best selling author
- Found the cure for cancer

[The Gentleman]

Sorry OP, but the chances are extremely slim unless you have some truly incredible soft factors. HLS admissions has to fill roughly 560 spots and maintain 173/3.9 medians, so a big part of whether you get in or not is numbers, which you don't have. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't apply though. I didn't think I had any reasonable chance at HLS (above GPA median/slightly below LSAT median) but I ended up getting in off the WL. Granted my numbers were more attractive than yours, but I would have hated myself forever if I didn't give it a shot.

Your best bet is to retake the LSAT and aim for 173+, and even then its a long shot with your GPA. But if that's out of the question, then send in an app now. Jut don't get your hopes up.

[thederangedwang]

Unless you have softs mentioned above (Olympic medalist, cancer treatment finder person), your chances at HYS are effectively 0.

Even life changing events wont be able to overcome this. For instance, if you grew up in a broken home, was raped repeatedly by your 5 uncles until you were 17, then pulled yourself through high school and college by yourself while working and being a D1 athlete while at the same time being involved in campus events..that still wouldn't help you enough.

To overcome stats this low, you need to be either an URM (which you aren't) or have softs that have considerable impact on not just yours, but many other people's lives. Hence, this is why you need something amazing like Olympics or cancer cure....even an AIDS cure might not suffice in your case..it would need to be cancer.

[DoubleChecks]

Unless you have softs mentioned above (Olympic medalist, cancer treatment finder person), your chances at HYS are effectively 0.

Even life changing events wont be able to overcome this. For instance, if you grew up in a broken home, was raped repeatedly by your 5 uncles until you were 17, then pulled yourself through high school and college by yourself while working and being a D1 athlete while at the same time being involved in campus events..that still wouldn't help you enough.

To overcome stats this low, you need to be either an URM (which you aren't) or have softs that have considerable impact on not just yours, but many other people's lives. Hence, this is why you need something amazing like Olympics or cancer cure....even an AIDS cure might not suffice in your case..it would need to be cancer.

iunno, the example you gave (in bold) might swing it if OP is a great writer lol. 3.8/168 ish isn't SO bad that they won't even read the app.

and in response to the gentleman; your stats are a LOT better than OP's, not just a little better. especially since, for all the kudos whoring the LSAT gets on here, i feel as if the post-TS administration looked extra-favorably upon higher GPAs. that being said, a 3.9/172 is way better than 3.8/168 lol.

[The Gentleman]

and in response to the gentleman; your stats are a LOT better than OP's, not just a little better. especially since, for all the kudos whoring the LSAT gets on here, i feel as if the post-TS administration looked extra-favorably upon higher GPAs. that being said, a 3.9/172 is way better than 3.8/168 lol.

That's definitely true. I guess that I just want to root for the long shots to get into HLS, since I felt like I was one. (Even though objectively my stats weren't that much of a longshot, especially compared to OP's.)

[094320]

..

[justinp]

Err, ok. So stupid question, but am I the troll or is the "zero chance" guy the troll? Either way, whatever.

Are there any other people who would have insight on who (besides urms) makes up the 25 or so percent of people who do get in with these numbers? Or even better what sorts of personal statements these people wrote to get them in? Related to this, are there examples of successful personal statements for harvard law school on this board somewhere? Also, could I ask what the "zero chance" responder's background is (ie, numbers, where you're in school ,etc)

People with incredible soft factors. Work experience, prestigious fellowships, incredibly adverse circumstances and the like. If you broke out of extreme poverty and founded three girls' schools in Kenya after a Rhodes scholarship and a stint as an analyst with a white-shoe investment bank, you'd prolly be in good shape.

[InformationOVERLOAD]

your chances are almost nill, but here is the exception to prove the rule. I know someone who went to an HYS law school with a sub 167 LSAT after applying late. non-urm, not sure of gpa. the caveats: this person

- was admitted off the waitlist 1 week before school started
- was an older applicant who had extensive social justice activism experience and a unique PS
- had completed another graduate degree at the same university, during which he/she had cross registered for classes at the law school -- and thus had received an LOR from
a professor of the HYS law school to which she/he was applying!

if u think u have stuff like that going for you, then consider it. otherwise you are probably wasting 50 usd. then again, if u have $$$ and time to burn, might as well do it so you can tell yourself you gave it your best shot.