Applications rise at Iowa despite drop elsewhere. Forum

[Opie]

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This article was on the front page of the Des Moines Register on Thursday. Most of it is nothing new to us, but I did find it interesting that the University of Iowa is seeing an increase in applications when mist others are seeing applications fall. It got me thinking: is there an application "sweet spot" where the school is still attainable, but has some sort of job prospects? Are there a significant number of applicants who would normally apply to schools in the mid to lower T100 that are making the decision to apply to schools in regions they wouldn't normally consider just to get better ranking?

[Aberzombie1892]

It got me thinking: is there an application "sweet spot" where the school is still attainable, but has some sort of job prospects?

I read this several times, but I am not sure I understand what you mean. Are you asking if there are easy schools to get into that offer good job prospects? There are so many subjective interpretations as to what "easy" and "good" would mean.

I would say that most of the T50 is generally worth about $70-$80K worth of debt, with maybe 3 exceptions. Many schools in this group offer at least modest job prospects, even in a poor economy - and $70-80K is a reasonable price to pay for those prospects. I realize that this though is not exactly on point as to what you were asking, but what you were asking doesn't really make sense to me.

However, it should be obvious that some schools in the T50 are easier to get into than others, and maybe that should answer your question.

[Bildungsroman]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

[Opie]

Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the increased rank?

[Opie]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to fill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

Edit: stupid autocorrect

[tennisking88]

Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the in readers rank?

I think that's right. I think the fact that they're ranked 27 is very attractive to people who have no idea that rank <<<< geography when choosing a law school outside the t14.

[Opie]

Sorry, what I mean is this: are people who would normally apply to lower ranked East coast schools like Cardozo/Rutgers/etc. applying to Midwest schools in the lower T30 because they think their job prospects will be better with the in readers rank?

I think that's right. I think the fact that they're ranked 27 is very attractive to people who have no idea that rank <<<< geography when choosing a law school outside the t14.

That's more what I was thinking. Iowa isn't a bad school, but if you live on the East Coast and want NYC biglaw, you have basically zero chance at it with Iowa unless you have a parent that is a hiring partner or something.

[Bildungsroman]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to gill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

So it's the fault of the BoR that Iowa is a TTT? That's a shame.

Also, Iowa only placed 12.18% of its class in NLJ 250 jobs last year, so hopefully nobody's being dumb enough to apply to schools like Iowa they wouldn't normally consider just because of the USNews rank.

[MTal]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

Dude, don't you get tired of being completely ignored by virtually all the other posters?

[Bildungsroman]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

Dude, don't you get tired of being completely ignored by virtually all the other posters?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

[ThreeRivers]

Yes, I actually saw Iowa rank and debated applying for a second then realized it is in Iowa lol

[top30man]

Iowa has scholarship stipulations. TTT

I think that's more related to our board of regents in Iowa. You also have to gill out an application for a fee waiver when they send it to you through CRS.

So it's the fault of the BoR that Iowa is a TTT? That's a shame.

Also, Iowa only placed 12.18% of its class in NLJ 250 jobs last year, so hopefully nobody's being dumb enough to apply to schools like Iowa they wouldn't normally consider just because of the USNews rank.

Agreed. While it is a great school for Iowa, it does not have the same clout as some similarly ranked schools (BC/BU/etc).

[Opie]

Yes, I actually saw Iowa rank and debated applying for a second then realized it is in Iowa lol

Iowa is a great place to live and go to school, but if you're counting on taking that degree back to the East coast, probably not a good idea.

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se. Its not good when schools give scholarships with stipulations to 75% of the class knowing that 60% of those people won't be in the top third, but I don't see that at Iowa.

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

[Bildungsroman]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

[Opie]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

[soj]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

Obviously a scholarship with a stip is better than no scholarship at all, but don't for a second think a $90K scholarship with stip at Iowa is actually worth $90K. You need to weigh that against the realistic risk of losing the scholarship in 2L-3L. Depending on your risk aversion, a $60K scholarship without stip could be worth more to you than a $90K scholarship with stip.

[Grizz]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

They're betting against you. There's a better chance you will fail than succeed.

[Grizz]

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.

[omninode]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

I guess it's a half empty/half full thing. Personally, I wouldn't take the risk.

[bjsesq]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

LOL

I would have gone to Iowa if they had removed that stipulation. It's a way for them to weasel out of a commitment they made to you. Your end of the deal was to attend school there. That's it. That's all it should be.

[Opie]

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

[IAFG]

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

It's really hard for me to imagine only betting on one tiny market. Living in Minneapolis/Chicago/Omaha/Milwaukee with a legal job >>> cashiering at Hy-Vee in Des Moines.

[Opie]

Also, I am sure that there are plenty of applicants who don't even know what the NLJ250 are. I personally don't plan to ever even apply to an NLJ250 firm.

I bet you eat your words come OCI.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I plan to live in Des Moines after law school, and AFAIK there aren't any NLJ250 firms in Iowa. I also don't think I need $160k a year to live. I'd be really happy with half of that.

It's really hard for me to imagine only betting on one tiny market. Living in Minneapolis/Chicago/Omaha/Milwaukee with a legal job >>> cashiering at Hy-Vee in Des Moines.

While that would be true for most K-JDs, I already have a better job than that in insurance and have good prospects for legal work at my company. If I decide to go for a firm job, my top pick would be Nyemaster Goode. I recognize that my situation isn't typical though. Some of my UG debt is paid already and I owe <100k on my home. I can afford to go smaller than most people here.

[minnbills]

While that would be true for most K-JDs, I already have a better job than that in insurance and have good prospects for legal work at my company. If I decide to go for a firm job, my top pick would be Nyemaster Goode. I recognize that my situation isn't typical though. Some of my UG debt is paid already and I owe <100k on my home. I can afford to go smaller than most people here.

Do you have some kind of connection at this firm? Your options (and whether or not you have them in the first place) will be largely dependent on your grades.

I would love to go work for Doresy in Minneapolis, but if I go to UMN and am outside the top 15% or so they won't give me the time of day, let alone an interview, no matter how badly I want to go there.

If you lose your scholly, not only will law school become a much more expensive 3 years, you may not even be competitive for jobs in private practice. That they're putting stips on their schollys implies that they are ok with a chunk of their incoming student body being basically screwed over, which doesn't reflect well on the school at all.

[JamMasterJ]

I honestly don't think stipulations are a bad thing per se.

When a school gives you a scholarship with a top 1/3rd requirement like Iowa does, they're changing the award from financial aid to a bet, and I don't want to go to a school that bets against me.

I see it as them offering you a break and you having to hold up your end of the deal.

They're betting against you. There's a better chance you will fail than succeed.

and a lot of schools rig the class so that all the scholly kids are in the same section