International student applying for JD/LLM programmes. Forum

[UKlawstudent]

Hey! Im new to this site, and was just wondering if anyone could tell me some information about applying to law schools as an international student. I've tried to read around on the internet but am getting slightly confused.

I haven't taken my LSAT yet as I wish to do the LLM and then the JD at a later date.

My main concern is the academic side of the application i.e. how do grades get transferred over into the american system, I know this is through LSAC but I'm not clear on what actually happens once records are submitted.

Thanks for any answers in advance

[AntipodeanPhil]

Why would you get an LLM first? If you plan to get a JD, won't that make the LLM a waste of time?

I don't know how the process works for LLM applications, but for JD applications, LSAC evaluates your transcript and assigns you one of the following assessments: superior; above average; average; below average. You won't get an LSAC GPA.

These evaluations don't count for the law school rankings (like LSAC GPAs do), so they don't mean much. We suspect the top 3 schools strongly prefer or require "superior," but other schools seem fine with "above average."

What all of this means is that your LSAT score will be even more important than it is for American applicants (and it is very important for them).

[009811]

From your username, I believe that you from England. Would you believe that U.S legal education program is better than U.K law program?

[UKlawstudent]

Why would you get an LLM first? If you plan to get a JD, won't that make the LLM a waste of time?

I don't know how the process works for LLM applications, but for JD applications, LSAC evaluates your transcript and assigns you one of the following assessments: superior; above average; average; below average. You won't get an LSAC GPA.

These evaluations don't count for the law school rankings (like LSAC GPAs do), so they don't mean much. We suspect the top 3 schools strongly prefer or require "superior," but other schools seem fine with "above average."

What all of this means is that your LSAT score will be even more important than it is for American applicants (and it is very important for them).

Just because of personal and financial reasons. I know it’s rather risky taking the JD first so I thought why not take the LLM then return to London and work for a while, applying for the JD programme (Plus many of the schools offer one year standing) at a later date. I think the big deal is funding. This is my main concern as I don't see any other way I'm going to be able to afford the JD without a scholarship or financial aid, but I’m not sure how this works for international students?

Oh cool, so i take it these roughly correlate to 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd etc.? Ah I see! I'm looking at Yale and Columbia as my main two schools

Thank you for answering!

[UKlawstudent]

From your username, I believe that you from England. Would you believe that U.S legal education program is better than U.K law program?

Yes I am. Erm not necessarily I think they both have their pros and cons, but I've always had a desire to live and work long-term in the U.S.

[AntipodeanPhil]

I know it’s rather risky taking the JD first so I thought why not take the LLM then return to London and work for a while, applying for the JD programme (Plus many of the schools offer one year standing) at a later date. I think the big deal is funding. This is my main concern as I don't see any other way I'm going to be able to afford the JD without a scholarship or financial aid, but I’m not sure how this works for international students?

Oh cool, so i take it these roughly correlate to 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd etc.? Ah I see! I'm looking at Yale and Columbia as my main two schools

They roughly correlate, but not perfectly - sometimes 2.1s get "superior" or "average," for example.

If you could get in to Yale, I believe funding wouldn't be an issue - the school would lend you the money. Unfortunately, Yale is extremely unlikely (not just for you, for all of us).

If you could get an LSAT score over 172, you would have an extremely good chance at Columbia, but you would be highly unlikely to get more than a small scholarship. With the right LSAT score, you could probably get a scholarship from a lower t14.

As you probably know, you need to prove to the US Government that you have the money for fees and cost of living before they will grant you a student visa, so the money issue is certainly difficult.

[yalito]

@ UKlawstudent: send you a PM. Respond if/when you can.

[UKlawstudent]

I know it’s rather risky taking the JD first so I thought why not take the LLM then return to London and work for a while, applying for the JD programme (Plus many of the schools offer one year standing) at a later date. I think the big deal is funding. This is my main concern as I don't see any other way I'm going to be able to afford the JD without a scholarship or financial aid, but I’m not sure how this works for international students?

Oh cool, so i take it these roughly correlate to 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd etc.? Ah I see! I'm looking at Yale and Columbia as my main two schools

They roughly correlate, but not perfectly - sometimes 2.1s get "superior" or "average," for example.

If you could get in to Yale, I believe funding wouldn't be an issue - the school would lend you the money. Unfortunately, Yale is extremely unlikely (not just for you, for all of us).

If you could get an LSAT score over 172, you would have an extremely good chance at Columbia, but you would be highly unlikely to get more than a small scholarship. With the right LSAT score, you could probably get a scholarship from a lower t14.

As you probably know, you need to prove to the US Government that you have the money for fees and cost of living before they will grant you a student visa, so the money issue is certainly difficult.

I see, so it will it also include other small matters that will make a difference such as letters of recommendation etc?
Ah, I have seen that from searching this forum. However I am set on Yale, it would be my absolute first choice. Would say a 'Superior' and good softs be okay for the LLM. Or would say a 'Superior' and a 175 be good enough for the JD? Im all new to this, so i don't know an awful lot.

thank you for your answer!

[bk641]

I know it’s rather risky taking the JD first so I thought why not take the LLM then return to London and work for a while, applying for the JD programme (Plus many of the schools offer one year standing) at a later date. I think the big deal is funding. This is my main concern as I don't see any other way I'm going to be able to afford the JD without a scholarship or financial aid, but I’m not sure how this works for international students?

Oh cool, so i take it these roughly correlate to 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd etc.? Ah I see! I'm looking at Yale and Columbia as my main two schools

They roughly correlate, but not perfectly - sometimes 2.1s get "superior" or "average," for example.

If you could get in to Yale, I believe funding wouldn't be an issue - the school would lend you the money. Unfortunately, Yale is extremely unlikely (not just for you, for all of us).

If you could get an LSAT score over 172, you would have an extremely good chance at Columbia, but you would be highly unlikely to get more than a small scholarship. With the right LSAT score, you could probably get a scholarship from a lower t14.

As you probably know, you need to prove to the US Government that you have the money for fees and cost of living before they will grant you a student visa, so the money issue is certainly difficult.

I see, so it will it also include other small matters that will make a difference such as letters of recommendation etc?
Ah, I have seen that from searching this forum. However I am set on Yale, it would be my absolute first choice. Would say a 'Superior' and good softs be okay for the LLM. Or would say a 'Superior' and a 175 be good enough for the JD? Im all new to this, so i don't know an awful lot.

thank you for your answer!

international students' cycles have traditionally been harder to predict.

furthermore, yale's entire admissions process is unpredictable. a 175 would make you competitive, yes, but who the hell knows with yale?

in short, international students + yale = crapshoot.

[UKlawstudent]

I know it’s rather risky taking the JD first so I thought why not take the LLM then return to London and work for a while, applying for the JD programme (Plus many of the schools offer one year standing) at a later date. I think the big deal is funding. This is my main concern as I don't see any other way I'm going to be able to afford the JD without a scholarship or financial aid, but I’m not sure how this works for international students?

Oh cool, so i take it these roughly correlate to 1st, 2.1, 2.2, 3rd etc.? Ah I see! I'm looking at Yale and Columbia as my main two schools

They roughly correlate, but not perfectly - sometimes 2.1s get "superior" or "average," for example.

If you could get in to Yale, I believe funding wouldn't be an issue - the school would lend you the money. Unfortunately, Yale is extremely unlikely (not just for you, for all of us).

If you could get an LSAT score over 172, you would have an extremely good chance at Columbia, but you would be highly unlikely to get more than a small scholarship. With the right LSAT score, you could probably get a scholarship from a lower t14.

As you probably know, you need to prove to the US Government that you have the money for fees and cost of living before they will grant you a student visa, so the money issue is certainly difficult.

I see, so it will it also include other small matters that will make a difference such as letters of recommendation etc?
Ah, I have seen that from searching this forum. However I am set on Yale, it would be my absolute first choice. Would say a 'Superior' and good softs be okay for the LLM. Or would say a 'Superior' and a 175 be good enough for the JD? Im all new to this, so i don't know an awful lot.

thank you for your answer!

international students' cycles have traditionally been harder to predict.

furthermore, yale's entire admissions process is unpredictable. a 175 would make you competitive, yes, but who the hell knows with yale?

in short, international students + yale = crapshoot.

Ah I see. Partially why I'm aiming for yale is because of the financial predicament. I guess ill just have to work my hardest and hope for the best ay hahaha! Thanks for answering.