Veterans Thread Forum

[ScottRiqui]

Military nurses are professionals with college degrees. Why shouldn't they be commissioned officers?

Because they are not doctors, but they often try to pull rank on MDs and DOs.

Actually, I'd be happier just making a new rank for military doctors, they already get paid more, are noncombatants, and have parallel chains of command.

Well the military system of rank is not at all ideal for running a healthcare system, but as long as lawyers, supply officers, and engineers are commissioned officers so nurses should be.

Plus, the fact that some nurses try to pull rank isn't necessarily an indictment of the system, it's just punks being punks. Most officers in the medical field aren't too concerned about rank, especially since you have so many come in from the outside world as senior 0-3s or even higher.

[Rotor]

I think I remember there being a former Navy O5 on here. I may be wrong, though.

why the past tense? I'm not dead!

[Rotor]

So looking at the ranks in the poll... I didn't see CWO's (I'm assuming Chief means Chief petty officers) anywhere. Overlooked again .

Wouldn't that make you the "F-ing scarily important" group?

[SemperLegal]

After 1l, everything I have ever known has fallen out of my head. Do we have to re-certify with the school each year?

[TheSpanishMain]

Military nurses are professionals with college degrees. Why shouldn't they be commissioned officers?

Because they are not doctors, but they often try to pull rank on MDs and DOs.

Actually, I'd be happier just making a new rank for military doctors, they already get paid more, are noncombatants, and have parallel chains of command.

Well the military system of rank is not at all ideal for running a healthcare system, but as long as lawyers, supply officers, and engineers are commissioned officers so nurses should be.

Plus, the fact that some nurses try to pull rank isn't necessarily an indictment of the system, it's just punks being punks. Most officers in the medical field aren't too concerned about rank, especially since you have so many come in from the outside world as senior 0-3s or even higher.

My wife is a Navy medical officer, and the military hierarchy clashing with the medical hierarchy creates all kinds of awkwardness. When you have a physician who is an O3 trying to direct a nurse who is an O4, shit does get a little weird. But you're right, most of the people in the medical field are not as overtly concerned about rank as other fields, unless they started off doing something else and later moved into medicine.

[Ex Cearulo]

Is this a Navy/Marines thing? Or is it like that in the Army, too? I don't think I've ever seen a nurse/med tech/dental tech who was also an officer. Pretty sure the only officers in the medical field in the Air Force are the doctors. It would be kind of like the JAG paralegals being officers and potentially outranking the lawyers they work for. Doesn't make much sense.

[TheSpanishMain]

Is this a Navy/Marines thing? Or is it like that in the Army, too? I don't think I've ever seen a nurse/med tech/dental tech who was also an officer. Pretty sure the only officers in the medical field in the Air Force are the doctors. It would be kind of like the JAG paralegals being officers and potentially outranking the lawyers they work for. Doesn't make much sense.

I don't think so. Being a full fledged nurse requires a four year degree, so they're officers in the Army as well. http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/ ... ficer.html
The Army also has physician's assistants, and they're officers, since they need a four year degree and a sort of med school-lite program.

Now, the med/dental techs who do stuff like take your blood pressure, give you immunizations, and clean your teeth with that little spinning thing are enlisted, but they're not nurses.

Edit: The three star Surgeon General of the Army, who commands the Army Medical Corps, is actually a nurse, not a physician. Lot of Army physicians butthurt about that, apparently.

[Ex Cearulo]

Is this a Navy/Marines thing? Or is it like that in the Army, too? I don't think I've ever seen a nurse/med tech/dental tech who was also an officer. Pretty sure the only officers in the medical field in the Air Force are the doctors. It would be kind of like the JAG paralegals being officers and potentially outranking the lawyers they work for. Doesn't make much sense.

I don't think so. Being a full fledged nurse requires a four year degree, so they're officers in the Army as well. http://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/ ... ficer.html
The Army also has physician's assistants, and they're officers, since they need a four year degree and a sort of med school-lite program.

Now, the med/dental techs who do stuff like take your blood pressure, give you immunizations, and clean your teeth with that little spinning thing are enlisted, but they're not nurses.

Edit: The three star Surgeon General of the Army, who commands the Army Medical Corps, is actually a nurse, not a physician. Lot of Army physicians butthurt about that, apparently.

That all makes sense. Maybe the Air Force has officer nurses/physicians' assistants, too, like at bigger medical facilities. It could be that I've just never encountered them before. I try to avoid the med folks to the max extent possible

[Cobretti]

That all makes sense. Maybe the Air Force has officer nurses/physicians' assistants, too, like at bigger medical facilities. It could be that I've just never encountered them before. I try to avoid the med folks to the max extent possible

amen, those bastards hand out DNIFs like candy
ETA: but i guess they do some good

[Zoomie]

Is this a Navy/Marines thing? Or is it like that in the Army, too? I don't think I've ever seen a nurse/med tech/dental tech who was also an officer. Pretty sure the only officers in the medical field in the Air Force are the doctors. It would be kind of like the JAG paralegals being officers and potentially outranking the lawyers they work for. Doesn't make much sense.

Nope, nurses are officers (in the Air Force) too as long as they have a BSN. Med techs and dental techs are enlisted.

[unc0mm0n1]

E-4 USMC grunt with deployments to OIF and OEF.

Damn. USMC E4 with a 169/3.8...

Not to self hate, but I don't think we have many joe's that smart in the Army.

Tell us more about yourself always legal

I have to stand up for the Honor of the Army 3.92/170 (former E5 --> CW2). We also have more Enlisted Army Soldiers at HLS than any other branch.

[unc0mm0n1]

Is this a Navy/Marines thing? Or is it like that in the Army, too? I don't think I've ever seen a nurse/med tech/dental tech who was also an officer. Pretty sure the only officers in the medical field in the Air Force are the doctors. It would be kind of like the JAG paralegals being officers and potentially outranking the lawyers they work for. Doesn't make much sense.

Nope, nurses are officers (in the Air Force) too as long as they have a BSN. Med techs and dental techs are enlisted.

All Army Nurses are officers, so are Physicians Assistants. Many nurses outrank doctors, (they even have a two-star I think) but that doesn't matter in the OR. It'll be like if you were running a range, you're in charge even if there is an officer who outranks you on the lanes. Most of the officers you see at sick call aren't doctors they're PA's or nurses. Also if you have ever seen the TV show M*A*S*H* the head nurse Major Houlihan (sp) out ranks both Drs Pierce and Hawkeye who are CPTs.

[elterrible78]

E-4 USMC grunt with deployments to OIF and OEF.

Damn. USMC E4 with a 169/3.8...

Not to self hate, but I don't think we have many joe's that smart in the Army.

Tell us more about yourself always legal

I have to stand up for the Honor of the Army 3.92/170 (former E5 --> CW2). We also have more Enlisted Army Soldiers at HLS than any other branch.

I'll step in here, as well, Chief. 3.95/178, ARNG. Also an E4

[Ling520]

E-4 USMC grunt with deployments to OIF and OEF.

Damn. USMC E4 with a 169/3.8...

Not to self hate, but I don't think we have many joe's that smart in the Army.

Tell us more about yourself always legal

I have to stand up for the Honor of the Army 3.92/170 (former E5 --> CW2). We also have more Enlisted Army Soldiers at HLS than any other branch.

Thank you for that. It always rubbed me wrong when leaders would act surprised that an enlisted soldier wasn't an idiot. I've known plenty of intelligent enlisted soldiers, though they were often underutilized.

[Cobretti]

Thank you for that. It always rubbed me wrong when leaders would act surprised that an enlisted soldier wasn't an idiot. I've known plenty of intelligent enlisted soldiers, though they were often underutilized.

the whole caste system is set up so intelligent enlisted members will never be adequately utilized or even acknowledged. really no surprise that we're here now.

ETA: that came off as more bitter than I meant it. 4 or 6 years enlisted is great for a lot of people, myself included. my remarks were more my impression of career enlisted.

[MT Cicero]

Thank you for that. It always rubbed me wrong when leaders would act surprised that an enlisted soldier wasn't an idiot. I've known plenty of intelligent enlisted soldiers, though they were often underutilized.

the whole caste system is set up so intelligent enlisted members will never be adequately utilized or even acknowledged. really no surprise that we're here now.

ETA: that came off as more bitter than I meant it. 4 or 6 years enlisted is great for a lot of people, myself included. my remarks were more my impression of career enlisted.

I have to mostly agree as well. I was enlisted for 2.5 years (already had my UG degree prior to enlisting). I commissioned 7 years ago now, and I still see hyper-intelligent enlisted men & women under-utilized. Sometimes E-5/E-6's don't like their act and that can doom them. Additionally, young officers who can't string 8 words together without sounding like a surfer idiot often overlook them instead of immediately identifying them for a commission and helping them get there.

Such is the state of the military. With more cuts coming, get ready for more of the same. In a numbers game, it's rarely qualitative...

[Ex Cearulo]

Thank you for that. It always rubbed me wrong when leaders would act surprised that an enlisted soldier wasn't an idiot. I've known plenty of intelligent enlisted soldiers, though they were often underutilized.

the whole caste system is set up so intelligent enlisted members will never be adequately utilized or even acknowledged. really no surprise that we're here now.

ETA: that came off as more bitter than I meant it. 4 or 6 years enlisted is great for a lot of people, myself included. my remarks were more my impression of career enlisted.

I have to mostly agree as well. I was enlisted for 2.5 years (already had my UG degree prior to enlisting). I commissioned 7 years ago now, and I still see hyper-intelligent enlisted men & women under-utilized. Sometimes E-5/E-6's don't like their act and that can doom them. Additionally, young officers who can't string 8 words together without sounding like a surfer idiot often overlook them instead of immediately identifying them for a commission and helping them get there.

Such is the state of the military. With more cuts coming, get ready for more of the same. In a numbers game, it's rarely qualitative...

I'm happy to say that at my last squadron the leadership did an excellent job of identifying sharp, motivated young NCOs, grooming them, and getting them into OTS if they wanted it. We had an Intel Staff Sgt who was easily smarter and better spoken than half the pilots in the squadron. He's now an Intel Lt. And we had a 1CO Staff Sgt (works at the squadron ops desk, tracks flight records and flying hours, etc) who kept the shop running like a well-oiled machine. He's now a Lt going through training to be a UAV operator. Okay, so that second one might be a waste of talent, but he's definitely officer material.

[ScottRiqui]

Does anyone know if you can still transfer Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to a dependent if you're unable (but not unwilling) to commit to four additional years of service? I'm retiring next year after 20 years of service because I'll hit high-year tenure for O-4, and there's no realistic hope of me picking up O-5.

I've heard that the VA will waive the four-year extension since the retirement is mandatory rather than voluntary, but I don't personally know anyone who's done it.

[SemperLegal]

Does anyone know if you can still transfer Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to a dependent if you're unable (but not unwilling) to commit to four additional years of service? I'm retiring next year after 20 years of service because I'll hit high-year tenure for O-4, and there's no realistic hope of me picking up O-5.

I've heard that the VA will waive the four-year extension since the retirement is mandatory rather than voluntary, but I don't personally know anyone who's done it.

My understanding was, no. However, I'd ask the legal services on base

Congrats on the 20!

[SemperLegal]

Thank you for that. It always rubbed me wrong when leaders would act surprised that an enlisted soldier wasn't an idiot. I've known plenty of intelligent enlisted soldiers, though they were often underutilized.

the whole caste system is set up so intelligent enlisted members will never be adequately utilized or even acknowledged. really no surprise that we're here now.

ETA: that came off as more bitter than I meant it. 4 or 6 years enlisted is great for a lot of people, myself included. my remarks were more my impression of career enlisted.

I have to mostly agree as well. I was enlisted for 2.5 years (already had my UG degree prior to enlisting). I commissioned 7 years ago now, and I still see hyper-intelligent enlisted men & women under-utilized. Sometimes E-5/E-6's don't like their act and that can doom them. Additionally, young officers who can't string 8 words together without sounding like a surfer idiot often overlook them instead of immediately identifying them for a commission and helping them get there.

Such is the state of the military. With more cuts coming, get ready for more of the same. In a numbers game, it's rarely qualitative...

I worked with a few enlisted that had graduate degrees, and more that had UG degrees (including myself). I think 70% of my command were willing to accept the fact that we could bring something special to the table, but occasionally we would get a LT who would treat us like dogshit. It was frustrating when I realized that my socks had more time in service then the bootenants did, and I went to a comparable college. All they had on me was 10 weeks in Quantico. Their attitudes normally changed as soon as it was time to perform. However, a select few just doubled down on the patronizing behavoir. I just chalked it up to an inferiority complex.

However, we didn't want to be officers, we just wanted to do our jobs. We (or at least I) was more than happy to give them all the officers perks as long as they were willing to take on officer responsibility. But hell has a special place reserved for any officer who uses the phrase "Shit rolls down hill." No m-fer, it runs uphill. You get paid the big bucks and get the salutes, every success belongs to your men (except on Fitness Reports) and every failure falls on your shoulders.

[Metanoia]

Once you separate, unless you're in a job interview, I think just about nobody cares about rank. I work with a ton of military guys, and nobody really seems to care. I flew with a guy a few weeks ago and didn't realize he was a full-bird until after 3 or 4 days of sitting right next to each other. The last guy I worked with flew attack helicopters and king airs and I still don't know what his rank was. I've worked with Seals, Squadron CCs and vehicle mechanics and some guys may have more interesting war stories, but IMO, people just care about your attitude and your ability to do your job.

[Zoomie]

Does anyone know if you can still transfer Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to a dependent if you're unable (but not unwilling) to commit to four additional years of service? I'm retiring next year after 20 years of service because I'll hit high-year tenure for O-4, and there's no realistic hope of me picking up O-5.

I've heard that the VA will waive the four-year extension since the retirement is mandatory rather than voluntary, but I don't personally know anyone who's done it.

I just went through TAPs class and the VA lady said right now it's kind of up to your individual branch. I would call the VA rep and find out. The lady who gave mbriefing spent the entire day talking about herself (retired as an E-6, so she was questionable anyway) instead of providing useful information and resources. She did say something about the additional 4 year commitment when someone asked about transferring.

[ScottRiqui]

Does anyone know if you can still transfer Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to a dependent if you're unable (but not unwilling) to commit to four additional years of service? I'm retiring next year after 20 years of service because I'll hit high-year tenure for O-4, and there's no realistic hope of me picking up O-5.

I've heard that the VA will waive the four-year extension since the retirement is mandatory rather than voluntary, but I don't personally know anyone who's done it.

I just went through TAPs class and the VA lady said right now it's kind of up to your individual branch. I would call the VA rep and find out. The lady who gave mbriefing spent the entire day talking about herself (retired as an E-6, so she was questionable anyway) instead of providing useful information and resources. She did say something about the additional 4 year commitment when someone asked about transferring.

I think I found the applicable guidance:

Any member of the Armed Forces (active duty or Selected Reserve, officer or enlisted), who is eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, and:

Has at least 6 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve) on the date of approval and agrees to serve 4 additional years in the Armed Forces from the date of election.

Has at least 10 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve) on the date of approval, is precluded by either standard policy (Service or DoD) or statute from committing to 4 additional years, and agrees to serve for the maximum amount of time allowed by such policy or statute.

Is or becomes retirement eligible and agrees to serve an additional 4 years of service on or after August 1, 2012. A service member is considered to be retirement eligible if he or she has completed 20 years of active Federal service or 20 qualifying years as computed pursuant to section 12732 of title 10 U.S.C.

Such transfer must be requested and approved while the member is in the Armed Forces.

The bolded part would cover my situation. Since I wasn't selected for promotion, I'm "precluded by standard policy or statute" from going beyond 20 years at my current rank. So, as long as I'm willing to serve the next 11 months until my retirement date (which is a no-brainer), I should be able to transfer some of my eligibility to my spouse. Also, I think that as long as I give her a single month before I retire, I can change the number of months later, after I retire.

[JazzyMac]

It would be great if we had a "Veterans Forum" versus just a thread. There are a lot of different topics here and people can miss things going through each and every page.

I'm aware that there may not be a huge following in the new forum, but these topics are pretty interesting and deserve their own threads.

[Metanoia]

Anybody know where to find information on entry-level govt. jobs for JDs? Do we get Vet's preference points or is there a different kind of hiring process for lawyers? Also, anybody know anything about careers in aviation law? Is working for the FAA, airlines, or manufacturers possible out of law school, or do all of those types of positions require pretty extensive experience?