Iraq Veteran Soft Factor? Forum

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:44 pm

I do not know how much my military experience will help me out here. I have a 165/3.2 and want to get into George Mason. I served five years in the Army, 1 year in Iraq, and graduated from the Defense Language Institute with a linguistic certification in Arabic. Anybody want to speculate on my chances? LSP has me as a strong consider for the part time program, but I don't know how reliable LSP is. Any thoughts?

ThreeRivers · Post by **ThreeRivers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:49 pm

I'm not going to pretend to know that much, but IMO your softs are VERY strong compared to most applicants. I'd say you'll get in

edit: I just imagine adcomms going through apps talking about being in the history club, working at a grocery store, being in a frat... then they come across yours which is obviously far superior lol

Nicholasnickynic · Post by **Nicholasnickynic** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:49 pm

When i was apply 2 cycles ago, 3.1/165 got me in with no significant soft factors.

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:12 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:When i was apply 2 cycles ago, 3.1/165 got me in with no significant soft factors.

So are you attending Mason now?

Nicholasnickynic · Post by **Nicholasnickynic** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:23 pm

Dblock20165 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:When i was apply 2 cycles ago, 3.1/165 got me in with no significant soft factors.
So are you attending Mason now?

I am not- they did not offer me a scholarship, wake forest offered me a 1/2 tuition scholarship.

Also, I think going to george mason to work in DC without connections or significant boost (perhaps military- you'd have to ask someone else) is a bad idea.

You are competing against yale, harvard, comlumbia, cornell, etc etc. All the best schools. As well as all the top students from lesser schools.

Heck, there are 4 or 5 better schools than george mason in the immediate dc area, as well as 2 on par.

Competition is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard.

I chose wake forest.
One school there is equal/slightly better (unc)
ONe school is waay better (duke), but most dukies go to ny.

I figured I'd have a much better shot being a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond.

Edited to Add: I'm very happy with my choice- got to work for NC DOJ my first summer, am interning with ADA this year (2L) and am hunting for an ADA job this summer (and its going very well).

IF I were you, I would figure out how far being ex-military will get you in DC circles. Beyond what I've said here, you are better off talking to someone who works in DC (do not believe students of a school- they are not in the workplace, adn they are going to have an overly positive view- for obvious reaosns)

TF31 · Post by **TF31** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:57 pm

Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:02 pm

TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!

Retake or don't go. That's the long and short of it. Unless you have a guaranteed job after, a 152/3.2 won't get you in anywhere worth going to, even as a vet.

TF31 · Post by **TF31** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:13 pm

Grizz wrote:
TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!
Retake or don't go. That's the long and short of it. Unless you have a guaranteed job after, a 152/3.2 won't get you in anywhere worth going to, even as a vet.

Sweet advice bro. Thanks!!

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:12 pm

TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!

Yeah you want to retake that. I don't know if you took a prep course or not, but they are definitely worth it. I did Kaplan's course and went from a 154 cold test to a 165 which is a MAJOR difference in where you can get in.

jessedvhs · Post by **jessedvhs** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:35 pm

Grizz wrote:
TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!
Retake or don't go. That's the long and short of it. Unless you have a guaranteed job after, a 152/3.2 won't get you in anywhere worth going to, even as a vet.

I wouldn't be so quick to shoot him down.
TF31, there was a combat vet with the nearly the same stats that got accepted into Duke and gave some great feedback on his cycle.
[url]http://www.top-law%20schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105358[/url]

I think being Spec Ops and so high speed and all, you would have unfuckwitable softs and a great story to tell on the PS and DS. Pretty confident you could secure something better than Campbell.

03121202698008 · Post by **03121202698008** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:38 pm

Being a vet helps by about an LSAT point or two. While a lot for a soft factor, it's not a ton. If using your GI Bill, a public school is your best choice as the GI Bill pays 100%. Most scholarships will be applied first so you won't actually get them... Only a few schools (that I am aware of) have reclassified them to get out under the new rules that went into effect this year.

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:34 pm

TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!

What year were you at DLI? I was graduated Arabic there in 2006. Monterey was the shit. In the Army world, we all know what kinda weight the Green Beret has, but admissions personnel may not. You might want to play that up a bit, but not neccessarily in your personal statement.

jessedvhs · Post by **jessedvhs** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:43 pm

Dblock20165 wrote:
TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!
What year were you at DLI? I was graduated Arabic there in 2006. Monterey was the shit. In the Army world, we all know what kinda weight the Green Beret has, but admissions personnel may not. You might want to play that up a bit, but not neccessarily in your personal statement.

Where else would you play it up?
Monterey may be great but it's no Fayette-Nam.

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:54 pm

jessedvhs wrote:
Dblock20165 wrote:
TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!
What year were you at DLI? I was graduated Arabic there in 2006. Monterey was the shit. In the Army world, we all know what kinda weight the Green Beret has, but admissions personnel may not. You might want to play that up a bit, but not neccessarily in your personal statement.
Where else would you play it up?
Monterey may be great but it's no Fayette-Nam.

He could make it a big part of his resume, or even throw in an addendum. I do not know this "Fayette-Nam" you speak of.

Hopefully2012 · Post by **Hopefully2012** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:40 pm

jessedvhs wrote:
Dblock20165 wrote:What year were you at DLI? I was graduated Arabic there in 2006. Monterey was the shit. In the Army world, we all know what kinda weight the Green Beret has, but admissions personnel may not. You might want to play that up a bit, but not neccessarily in your personal statement.
Where else would you play it up?
Monterey may be great but it's no Fayette-Nam.

Pretty great topic for a diversity statement imo.

JCougar · Post by **JCougar** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:17 am

Being a veteran helps both in the application process and in the job interviewing process. It's definitely more of a plus than just raw work experience.

You should cruise into Mason without a problem. You probably have the numbers to get in there even without being a vet.

arhmcpo · Post by **arhmcpo** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:42 am

Grizz wrote:
TF31 wrote:Great question here. I posted a whopping 152 on this LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. White dude too, so that's not going to help the cause. At any rate, I'm an Army Green Beret officer with 9 years in service. Deployed, also went to DLI (Chinese), etc. I'm struggling to decide where I should apply. With my poor LSAT score, I'm not sure if I would stand a chance at even a top 100 law school. Currently in NC and looking at UNC, Wake, and Campbell (being my most realistic shot). Any advice would be much appreciated!
Retake or don't go. That's the long and short of it. Unless you have a guaranteed job after, a 152/3.2 won't get you in anywhere worth going to, even as a vet.

+1. Your obviously pretty smart and capable based on your experience. Assuming you did not take a substantial in depth course like Kaplan offers, you absolutely need to. My diagnostic was 156 and I scored a 165 after the course. The LSAT is a very teachable test, if you study enough you will see a degree of improvement. You cannot underestimate the importance of the LSAT. My cousin and I go to the same school, she got 4 pts lower than me but had a higher gpa - I got a full scholly and she got nothing.

Moral of the story: get that LSAT score UP before you apply

TF31 · Post by **TF31** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:41 pm

I attended DLI at Bragg... they have recently brought DLI to the Q-course at Bragg (so no more partying in CA).

I did my PS on a pretty cool deployment story, so I'm hoping that it will show a glimpse of what it means to work in SOF. I also packaged my resume to reflect the same.

Sadly enough, I did take a 2-month LSAT prep class (Powerscore) and scored 2 pts lower on the actual LSAT than on my diagnostic. I was PTing anywhere from a 151-160. Never got above that and really did work hard... sort of a bummer.

I was against doing an addendum because I felt like it was sort of boasting. It's already in the PS and resume, so I didn't want to look pompous. Although, my undergrad 3.2 GPA (at The Citadel) and 152 LSAT sure aren't going to make waves. Maybe I should go with the addendum?

Thanks for the advice (didn't mean to steal the thread bro!).

sky7 · Post by **sky7** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:55 pm

Listen bro - you need to retake the LSAT. Maybe try Velocity LSAT - the guy really seems to know what he's doing, and he explains things a bit differently than the uber formatic Powerscore/Testmasters.

I think that you would be very competitive at some T20 schools if you could get your LSAT above 165. I recommend doing whatever it takes, then try the GULC and GW part-time programs.

While I'm not anything like a Green Beret, I feel that my military service really helped me get into GW, as I had a 2.5 undergrad GPA from Annapolis. But I gave them reason to look past that with a decent LSAT score. You just need to give them a reason to take a chance on you, and my bet is that they will.

lrslayer · Post by **lrslayer** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:56 pm

TF31 wrote:I attended DLI at Bragg... they have recently brought DLI to the Q-course at Bragg (so no more partying in CA).

I did my PS on a pretty cool deployment story, so I'm hoping that it will show a glimpse of what it means to work in SOF. I also packaged my resume to reflect the same.

Sadly enough, I did take a 2-month LSAT prep class (Powerscore) and scored 2 pts lower on the actual LSAT than on my diagnostic. I was PTing anywhere from a 151-160. Never got above that and really did work hard... sort of a bummer.

I was against doing an addendum because I felt like it was sort of boasting. It's already in the PS and resume, so I didn't want to look pompous. Although, my undergrad 3.2 GPA (at The Citadel) and 152 LSAT sure aren't going to make waves. Maybe I should go with the addendum?

Thanks for the advice (didn't mean to steal the thread bro!).

edited for: tmi

eta: while i am advocating for an addendum, i must also echo what others have said about the retake. i'm sure my addendum will help but my 167 lsat is going to help even more.

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:05 pm

sky7 wrote:Listen bro - you need to retake the LSAT. Maybe try Velocity LSAT - the guy really seems to know what he's doing, and he explains things a bit differently than the uber formatic Powerscore/Testmasters.

I think that you would be very competitive at some T20 schools if you could get your LSAT above 165. I recommend doing whatever it takes, then try the GULC and GW part-time programs.

While I'm not anything like a Green Beret, I feel that my military service really helped me get into GW, as I had a 2.5 undergrad GPA from Annapolis. But I gave them reason to look past that with a decent LSAT score. You just need to give them a reason to take a chance on you, and my bet is that they will.

Mind saying what your LSAT score was? I'm looking at GW with a 3.2/165/Iraq Vet. Although I don't know if I could justify paying twice the tuition of George Mason. How much better do you think GW fares in the DC job market? I'm hearing all kinds of negative things about jobs after graduation...

sky7 · Post by **sky7** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:20 pm

Dblock20165 wrote:
sky7 wrote:Listen bro - you need to retake the LSAT. Maybe try Velocity LSAT - the guy really seems to know what he's doing, and he explains things a bit differently than the uber formatic Powerscore/Testmasters.

I think that you would be very competitive at some T20 schools if you could get your LSAT above 165. I recommend doing whatever it takes, then try the GULC and GW part-time programs.

While I'm not anything like a Green Beret, I feel that my military service really helped me get into GW, as I had a 2.5 undergrad GPA from Annapolis. But I gave them reason to look past that with a decent LSAT score. You just need to give them a reason to take a chance on you, and my bet is that they will.
Mind saying what your LSAT score was? I'm looking at GW with a 3.2/165/Iraq Vet. Although I don't know if I could justify paying twice the tuition of George Mason. How much better do you think GW fares in the DC job market? I'm hearing all kinds of negative things about jobs after graduation...

165. Caveat: I got in back in the day when they didn't count part-time programs against the average GPA/LSAT of the school in the USNWR rankings. 2 years ago, they changed that, and I think that GW became a bit more strict on the part-time numbers.

Also, I turned down GMU (instate) for GW at sticker. As an IP guy, I don't regret. GW's name is gold in the IP world. If you don't have the technical background, it's a much tougher call in today's economy.

sky7 · Post by **sky7** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:27 pm

I thought I should add: it's a bloodbath out there. I do believe that hiring is picking up a little, but it's not ANYTHING like what it was in 2007. Realistically, you need to be top 25% at GW, unless you're IP, to make market somewhere. It used to be around top 50% (if you count NLJ + non NLJ firms that pay market). That said, I know that Mason is much much worse.

So, take a 1/4 chance on a lot of debt, or a 1/20 chance with little debt. It's a tough call, but it's the reality.

Dblock20165 · Post by **Dblock20165** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:30 pm

sky7 wrote:I thought I should add: it's a bloodbath out there. I do believe that hiring is picking up a little, but it's not ANYTHING like what it was in 2007. Realistically, you need to be top 25% at GW, unless you're IP, to make market somewhere. It used to be around top 50% (if you count NLJ + non NLJ firms that pay market). That said, I know that Mason is much much worse.

So, take a 1/4 chance on a lot of debt, or a 1/20 chance with little debt. It's a tough call, but it's the reality.

What is IP? Am I retarded for asking this? Are you 2L, 3L?

Yeah I'm gonna do part time too. Does that have a negative effect on hiring decisions?

lrslayer · Post by **lrslayer** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:02 am

Dblock20165 wrote:
sky7 wrote:I thought I should add: it's a bloodbath out there. I do believe that hiring is picking up a little, but it's not ANYTHING like what it was in 2007. Realistically, you need to be top 25% at GW, unless you're IP, to make market somewhere. It used to be around top 50% (if you count NLJ + non NLJ firms that pay market). That said, I know that Mason is much much worse.

So, take a 1/4 chance on a lot of debt, or a 1/20 chance with little debt. It's a tough call, but it's the reality.

What is IP? Am I retarded for asking this? Are you 2L, 3L?

Yeah I'm gonna do part time too. Does that have a negative effect on hiring decisions?

IP is intellectual property law. GW is ranked third, after only Berkeley and Stanford.

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