Character & Fitness Disclosures Forum

[Sprite]

Literally my first week of undergrad (4 years ago), I received a citation that was something along the lines of possession of alcohol underage.

I went to court, took an alcohol education class, & had it expunged from my record. I naively thought that this would never come back to bite me.

Obviously, I am preparing to apply for law school & am going to have to disclose this.

I have called the Clerk of Court in the county where the offense occurred just to find out the exact offense & the date on which I was cited. However, they are claiming to have no record of this since it was expunged.

Does this mean that I don't have to disclose? Or am I just going to have to give a vague description of the incident?

Also, is an addendum necessary for this kind of offense? It is the one and only time I've ever been in trouble whatsoever...

Any help would be super appreciated.

[Alpine]

I would also like to know, since I have had something similar occur in my past, as well.

[Hopefully2012]

A vague description is sufficient and it won't affect your admissions cycle. I would definitely disclose though, especially for the schools that say you must disclose expunged records.

[theadvancededit]

Definitely disclose. And, being vague won't help you with anything. Just described what happened, as is, and include that it was in fact expunged.

[Sprite]

By "vague" I meant just a general description, since it seems there's apparently no way to find out the actual charge.

If the Clerk of Court has no record of it, is there any other route for me to take to find out what it even was?

[target]

By "vague" I meant just a general description, since it seems there's apparently no way to find out the actual charge.

If the Clerk of Court has no record of it, is there any other route for me to take to find out what it even was?

I think there are ways law enforcer can get those records, but you can't. General description to the best of your knowledge with no deceptions should be okay since that's what you affirm to schools at the bottom of your application (before signing it)

[Tim0thy222]

Also OP, if it makes you feel better it probably won't affect your admissions decisions at all.

Last cycle I had to call a bunch of admissions offices after being accepted to add on an addendum for an expunged theft 2 charge when I was younger, and whenever I asked about if it would affect my admissions decision they were just like "LOL we don't care! This is just for your character and fitness exam later. Let's be honest, we're just using you for your numbers anyway."

[tyro]

Just disclose it and be honest. An underage drinking ticket won't matter.

[Sprite]

You guys have made me feel a million times better. Thanks!

[Sprite]

.

[jc010]

On October 4, 2011 while traveling on Interstate-95 in XXX County, Virginia, I was stopped and issued a citation for traveling 80 MPH in a 70 MPH zone. I retained an attorney, and the charge was reduced to Defective Speedometer, a non-moving violation. The Judge imposed a $75.00 fine and court cost in the amount of $61.00, for a total of $136.00.

In August 2007, during the first week of my undergraduate studies, while carrying a case of alcoholic beverages, I was approached by an undercover police officer and issued a misdemeanor citation for underage possession of a malt beverage. I pled guilty to this charge and enrolled in a first offenders program. Upon completion of an alcohol education class, this charge was subsequently expunged from my record. However, due to this having been removed from my record, the XXX County Clerk of Court has been unable to offer the exact details of my case. This incident served as a very real wake-up call to an otherwise naïve freshman, and I have had no further non-traffic related charges.

_____________

Do I even need to include the "I learned my lesson blah blah blah"?

Also, I have tried & tried to get the details of my alcohol case, but they literally apparently have no record of the incident. Is the info I gave sufficient?

I would delete the wake-up call part. It's enough that you haven't had any other charges. I don't know if I personally would say "retained a lawyer" in the first one, but that's just my opinion.

And don't worry about your chances. I had basically the same violations and already have acceptances. It doesn't seem to matter at all. I didn't have records either so I just wrote what year/season it was in.

[Tim0thy222]

On October 4, 2011 while traveling on Interstate-95 in XXX County, Virginia, I was stopped and issued a citation for traveling 80 MPH in a 70 MPH zone. I retained an attorney, and the charge was reduced to Defective Speedometer, a non-moving violation. The Judge imposed a $75.00 fine and court cost in the amount of $61.00, for a total of $136.00.

In August 2007, during the first week of my undergraduate studies, while carrying a case of alcoholic beverages, I was approached by an undercover police officer and issued a misdemeanor citation for underage possession of a malt beverage. I pled guilty to this charge and enrolled in a first offenders program. Upon completion of an alcohol education class, this charge was subsequently expunged from my record. However, due to this having been removed from my record, the XXX County Clerk of Court has been unable to offer the exact details of my case. This incident served as a very real wake-up call to an otherwise naïve freshman, and I have had no further non-traffic related charges.

_____________

Do I even need to include the "I learned my lesson blah blah blah"?

Also, I have tried & tried to get the details of my alcohol case, but they literally apparently have no record of the incident. Is the info I gave sufficient?

I would delete the wake-up call part. It's enough that you haven't had any other charges. I don't know if I personally would say "retained a lawyer" in the first one, but that's just my opinion.

And don't worry about your chances. I had basically the same violations and already have acceptances. It doesn't seem to matter at all. I didn't have records either so I just wrote what year/season it was in.

+1. that's all good advice.

[tyro]

Delete that you retained an attorney for a speeding ticket. Are you serious?

[HOPEFORCHANGE]

The general rule, unless the question states explicitly that you don't have to include expunged offenses, is full disclosure. Why are you trying to conceal underage drinking anyway? Or whatever it is. Along the lines, as you said. They don't care. They really don't. Maybe if had four DUIs in the past six months, they might care. But they don't want you to lie. They want honesty. Honesty = character. Fitness = you aren't a drunk or something along the lines of it now. Trust me - I have been there and I fully disclosed. I am a law student at my first choice school.

I wouldn't lie, but it's up to you. There is no record, as you said. But what if the bar examiners do find it? You can fix fitness issues, but not your character....

[GerardC3]

yea I had a similar issue, just described the incident in a paragraph. Thankfully, it hasn't affected my cycle

[tjos]

I have a similar question I was hoping someone could answer. This is the part of application regarding disclosures...

Have you ever been convicted of a misdemeanor or felony (excluding minor traffic violations)? As used herein a conviction includes a plea of guilty or nolo contendere, or a verdict of finding of guilt, regardless of whether sentence is imposed by the court. You must disclose this requested information even if the charges were juvenile convictions, the conviction was stayed or vacated, the record was sealed or expunged, or you were told you need not disclose this information. You must also disclose any incident that is awaiting final adjudication.

I got a ticket for public intoxication walking home one night on spring break, but was told that in the county not only was it not a felony (obviously), but it wasn't even a misdemeanor. The woman told me it was a "city ordinance violation" and that it was essentially less than a speeding ticket. I'm assuming this is the case because it's so common in the area, but I was wondering - is that something I have to disclose because of the way it's classified?