172/3.86 Where to Apply Forum

[WhiteGuy5]

Now that I have my score, it would be nice to reconsider where I'm applying. I had made contingency plans for applying to about 20 schools. That will no longer be necessary. I don't have any major softs (no rhodes or Fulbrights, etc.-- just presidents of student clubs and a whole bunch of internships/work).

I would love Columbia or NYU, but would obviously run to HYS. Should I apply to all the T14, or just T6 + one other school as a safety. Or is this a bad idea? I honestly prefer Georgetown and Cornell over the other T14s, but they ARE, after all, lower T14s. Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Also, keep in mind scholarships.

Is it realistic to not get into any of the T6s?

Advice from people who have been down this road would be nice.

Edit: This could be in the "Choosing a School" forum; mods can do as they wish, as always.

[lawyerwannabe]

Personally, I hate the idea of applying to safety schools. People should only go to law school if they get into a really good school (or a pretty good school with a nice scholarship) and really want to go to that school. Why would you pay to go to a school that you don't want to be at and would not offer you great job prospects?

Your case is a little different because you are saying T6 plus safeties in T14 (all schools giving you pretty good job prospects). If there are schools outside the T6 that you would not mind attending, then apply to those. I definitely think that you will get into a T6 though. Your decision will come down to T6 or T14 with a nice scholarship.

[WhiteGuy5]

Personally, I hate the idea of applying to safety schools. People should only go to law school if they get into a really good school (or a pretty good school with a nice scholarship) and really want to go to that school. Why would you pay to go to a school that you don't want to be at and would not offer you great job prospects?

Your case is a little different because you are saying T6 plus safeties in T14 (all schools giving you pretty good job prospects). If there are schools outside the T6 that you would not mind attending, then apply to those. I definitely think that you will get into a T6 though. Your decision will come down to T6 or T14 with a nice scholarship.

Thanks. The problem with the non-T6 T14s is that the ones I would RATHER go to (Cornell) are the lowest T14s. Do you think my chances at a T6 are solid enough to not even apply to any of the other schools? Even for scholarship leverage?

[American_in_China]

If you have fee waivers, everywhere down to Wash U? That 172 is a magic half ride there, though I doubt you'll need it. With those numbers you're probably at admit at at least 1 from CCN, and you'll start getting good scholarships after that.

[snailio]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

[WhiteGuy5]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

But I'm totally in their medians...why disqualify myself?

[Xifeng]

I'd definitely apply to MVP at least so you could potentially bargain for more scholarship money from a school you actually want to attend. I did that and had similar #s. Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.

[snailio]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

But I'm totally in their medians...why disqualify myself?

Ok look, ITE you want the very best school you can get into period, I know people in the top 10% of their classes in the lower T14 without gigs, forget about the leveraging blah blah blah...get the best school, use your two safe schools if you want to play the leverage game. Time for people to realize where they are, it's 2012 not 2005.

[WhiteGuy5]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

But I'm totally in their medians...why disqualify myself?

Ok look, ITE you want the very best school you can get into period, I know people in the top 10% of their classes in the lower T14 without gigs, forget about the leveraging blah blah blah...get the best school, use your two safe schools if you want to play the leverage game. Time for people to realize where they are, it's 2012 not 2005.

I meant in YS medians lol...

[lawyerwannabe]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

But I'm totally in their medians...why disqualify myself?

Ok look, ITE you want the very best school you can get into period, I know people in the top 10% of their classes in the lower T14 without gigs, forget about the leveraging blah blah blah...get the best school, use your two safe schools if you want to play the leverage game. Time for people to realize where they are, it's 2012 not 2005.

Those people most either be socially inept or be the worst bidders in history. The economy is not that bad. T7 - T13 still places between 45 - 55% in BigLaw.

[icedflames]

If you've got fee waivers and such, I'd say blanket the T14.
Hey you never know! (to quote the NY Lottery)

[ahduth]

You should really apply everywhere that gives you a negotiable scholarship offer. I fucked up, and didn't apply to Penn, didn't get myself off the waitlist at Michigan, withdrew from Chicago's waitlist - none of which improved my bargaining position. You want to soak these people for as much money as possible.

[snailio]

If you have fee waivers might as well use them, otherwise I think you could just target the T6 as you say plus a safety or two. Personally YS are low chance applications but if you have some really unusual soft then go for it.

But I'm totally in their medians...why disqualify myself?

Ok look, ITE you want the very best school you can get into period, I know people in the top 10% of their classes in the lower T14 without gigs, forget about the leveraging blah blah blah...get the best school, use your two safe schools if you want to play the leverage game. Time for people to realize where they are, it's 2012 not 2005.

I meant in YS medians lol...

You're below at Y and split at S

and here's a guy telling you

The economy is not that bad. T7 - T13 still places between 45 - 55% in BigLaw.

LOL O'rly?

[WhiteGuy5]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

[lawyerwannabe]

The economy is not that bad. T7 - T13 still places between 45 - 55% in BigLaw.

LOL O'rly?

Uhhh. Yes? Do you go to a lower T14 and have any proof of what you are insinuating? Yes. Median at lower T14 still has a pretty good shot at BigLaw. Median does not guarantee you anything. But it does not close any doors. As long as the economy does not tank, it is safe to say that around 60 - 70% of my lower T14 class will have either have a V100 gig, AIII clerkship, or firm job in their desired home town upon graduation.

[lawyerwannabe]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

I personally would take HYS w/ no money over the other T14 w/ money. However, outside HYS, when you compare CCN w/ no money to MVPDNC w/ money, it will come down to more personal preference. While the job prospects may be marginally better at CCN, how much is that marginal increase in prospects worth to you? Also, if you do not want to work in NYC, CCN is pretty much viewed as a per to MVPDNC. Outside NYC, it is HYS and then the rest of the T14.

It appears with your numbers, you will likely end up with CCN w/ no money and MVPDNC w/ money as the options to choose between.

[WhiteGuy5]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

It appears with your numbers, you will likely end up with CCN w/ no money and MVPDNC w/ money as the options to choose between.

Noo

[snailio]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

Absolutely, and I'm not saying don't apply to YS just keep your expectations in check and whatever school you do get into remember the lower the school the higher you have to place in the class to consider yourself "safe" all else being equal.

For example HYS top half, CCN top third, think I'm lying? Go ask some 3L's at NYU how that public interest thingy is working out for them, hiring freezes and budget cuts make government and NGO jobs scarce.

ITE nobody is safe, you need to make yourself as bulletproof as possible, that's just the reality of the situation now, it's not like you can fall out of bed from a T14 and snag 160k big law gig like it was in 2005.

Most big law firms have cut their summer classes in half over the last 4 years, check NALP, you'll see, logic dictates that those firms are not going as deeply into classes at the lower end of the T14, some may have cut a little too deeply and are enlarging their summer classes, but only slightly and those are an anomaly.

Don't be fooled by offer rates because firms are now front loading their OCI interviewing process more seriously, they are vetting students at the front end of the process to save money.

Just remember to get as informed as possible and you'll have a leg up.

GL

[lawyerwannabe]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

Absolutely, and I'm not saying don't apply to YS just keep your expectations in check and whatever school you do get into remember the lower the school the higher you have to place in the class to consider yourself "safe" all else being equal.

For example HYS top half, CCN top third, think I'm lying? Go ask some 3L's at NYU how that public interest thingy is working out for them, hiring freezes and budget cuts make government and NGO jobs scarce.

ITE nobody is safe, you need to make yourself as bulletproof as possible, that's just the reality of the situation now, it's not like you can fall out of bed from a T14 and snag 160k big law gig like it was in 2005.

Most big law firms have cut their summer classes in half over the last 4 years, check NALP, you'll see, logic dictates that those firms are not going as deeply into classes at the lower end of the T14, some may have cut a little too deeply and are enlarging their summer classes, but only slightly and those are an anomaly.

Don't be fooled by offer rates because firms are now front loading their OCI interviewing process more seriously, they are vetting students at the front end of the process to save money.

Just remember to get as informed as possible and you'll have a leg up.

GL

This is all sorts of misinformed.

[Xifeng]

LOL O'rly

So -- you would pick a T6 over the other T14s, even if they gave you substantial scholarship? Just curious because I think I agree with you.

It appears with your numbers, you will likely end up with CCN w/ no money and MVPDNC w/ money as the options to choose between.

Noo

I had very similar numbers and I got $$ at the 2/3 CCN I got in at. But don't count on that, definitely apply more places and negotiate. You don't want to be kicking yourself in a few months. Be smart now.