Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2011-2012 Forum

[username taken]

Will LSDAS/LSAC send my grad GPA too? If so, can schools report it? I suppose not since that would be mixing undergrad and grad GPAs. Still, maybe having a GPA on the US scale can help me? My grad GPA is (so far) 3.9, and my international GPA should be "superior."

[deluxe]

Will LSDAS/LSAC send my grad GPA too? If so, can schools report it? I suppose not since that would be mixing undergrad and grad GPAs. Still, maybe having a GPA on the US scale can help me? My grad GPA is (so far) 3.9, and my international GPA should be "superior."

LSDAS will not generate a report for your grad school transcript but will forward it to the law schools. I talked with an admission officer from Duke in an info session held in Chicago and he said "we don't really look at grad school gpa but might look into what kind of courses you have taken"

[deluxe]

I am exploring the financial aid opportunities at NYU's ASW. They linked me to Need Access and it seems to be a sophisticated website which requires a lot of personal financial information. I am just curious, as an international student, is the webiste even relevant to me? Are they only granting money to U.S. citizens? I know that the top 3 will provide need-based money to all applicants. Do they require you to fill out those information from the same website "needaccess" ? Have you guys used this website? Thank you!

I haven't used it, because the only schools that have accepted me so far and provide need-based money require students to provide parental income through Need Access - my parents make a good amount of money, even in US$ (although they haven't supported me financially since I was 21).

If your parents aren't wealthy, or NYU doesn't require parental information, you might as well try it. I don't know of any cases of foreign students getting need-based money at CCN, but a lot of people don't talk about that sort of thing. Besides money, I believe CC also provide limited private loans that way - that might be helpful.

I think all of the T6 use the Need Access website - they're all included under the list of 'Participating Schools.'

I got 30K/3yrs need-based aid from Columbia this year. I applied late and didn't get any scholarship, but one day after I submitted my parental income statement (yes you have also to finish the forms on NeedAccess and email back the FA questionnaire) they sent me the award info through email. There is an institutional loan of $24000 per year and I have to borrow a private loan of 45k for the first year. There is this cosigner issue for me too (my aunt is a green-card holder and my uncle-in-law is a US citizen but I don't really want to bother them) so I finally decide to go to HLS.

[bk641]

got into HLS today off the waitlist, on the fence about going given i have a 75K scholly from NYU.

has any international student received aid money from HLS so far? when i asked dean soban about it she said people off the waitlist get full consideration for aid, but i have no idea if H is willing to give any financial aid to international students, despite it being 100% need-based.

thank you!

[AntipodeanPhil]

got into HLS today off the waitlist, on the fence about going given i have a 75K scholly from NYU.

has any international student received aid money from HLS so far? when i asked dean soban about it she said people off the waitlist get full consideration for aid, but i have no idea if H is willing to give any financial aid to international students, despite it being 100% need-based.

Congratulations! That's great news. This has been an amazing cycle for TLS internationals.

I wish I could help with your question. YLS seems to treat internationals the same way for need-based aid, but I know HLS and YLS differ a lot on their financial aid policies.

[deluxe]

got into HLS today off the waitlist, on the fence about going given i have a 75K scholly from NYU.

has any international student received aid money from HLS so far? when i asked dean soban about it she said people off the waitlist get full consideration for aid, but i have no idea if H is willing to give any financial aid to international students, despite it being 100% need-based.

thank you!

Hey this is what a friend of mine who went to YLS around 2005 offered (from China):
Yale Law School, admitted, scholarship 27600 USD/year, attending
Harvard Law School, admitted, scholarship 28900 USD/year, declined
I'm applying for aid this week and hope to get something, at least greater than my Columbia 30K.

[muddup]

Hey, re CPT/OPT again. I'm wondering if you do a 1L or 2L SA, how could you possibly turn this into an CPT project?

Thanks,
Mud

[Blue Leopard]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

[dingbat]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

[tonton]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

Wow! Maybe you're "just being realistic", but there are quite a few internationals with below 25th percentile LSATs that have gotten in to T14 schools. And also maybe he/she does have a 75th percentile plus GPA/LSAT, and as such can expect big money. TLS can be so cold

[Unagi]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

Wow! Maybe you're "just being realistic", but there are quite a few internationals with below 25th percentile LSATs that have gotten in to T14 schools. And also maybe he/she does have a 75th percentile plus GPA/LSAT, and as such can expect big money. TLS can be so cold

I agree. I got in at NYU with a 168 LSAT and a "above average" GPA. I also got a lot of money from schools in the T25 range, but just talking about T14, GULG offered me 30k/y and Cornell 25k/y. I am really glad I applied to schools that I had "no chance" because I was accepted at a few of them and this helped me negotiate with other schools.
And about loans, one of the T14 offered me an institutional loan to replace the Staford loan I am not eligible to get. And they say they don't offer loans!
So my point is that you should try, you have nothing to lose except the application money (and you can always ask for a fee waiver)

[dingbat]

Wow! Maybe you're "just being realistic", but there are quite a few internationals with below 25th percentile LSATs that have gotten in to T14 schools. And also maybe he/she does have a 75th percentile plus GPA/LSAT, and as such can expect big money. TLS can be so cold

I'll admit I am being a bit harsh (and like someone said, there's no harm in trying)
But, how does a foreign applicant have a 75th percentile GPA? For that matter, how does a foreign applicant even have a GPA?

edit: scratch that, you're talking foreigners with a domestic UG. I was referring to foreign UG.

[AntipodeanPhil]

I agree that true-internationals (without GPAs) generally haven't had much luck at t14 schools with below median LSAT scores in the past. Some have had luck, though, especially at international-friendly schools (Columbia, NYU). But that was before application numbers fell off a cliff. I think it will be really interesting to see what happens this coming cycle. Paul Campos thinks schools will start admitting larger numbers of internationals to help protect their medians, but those medians might be significantly lower next cycle.

Short version: definitely apply to a few schools you'd be below median at based on current numbers. Apply to lower-ranked schools also, though.

[Redamon1]

Apply broadly. I got accepted and waitlisted at several T14s with below median LSAT.

[BlackadderIn]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

How come almost everybody here has "superior" GPA evaluation? So jealous of you guys. I'm still waiting for my evaluation, but if I use the LSAC method, my GPA would be abysmal, which isn't fair . I went to one of the top 5 universities in China with a tough grading system, I have no idea how CAS is going to evaluate Chinese UG grades, with such a heterogeneity in schools and grading systems. (Anyone else with Chinese UG cares to comment?)

Big question: In the worst case, if I get a "below average", how far can my 171 (1st try, June, will retake in Oct) bring me?

I also got a PhD at one point and over 20 publications in high ranking international science journals. Also, I was only 13 when I went to UG (crazy Youth Program in China), maybe that's addendum-worthy?

[dingbat]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

How come almost everybody here has "superior" GPA evaluation? So jealous of you guys. I'm still waiting for my evaluation, but if I use the LSAC method, my GPA would be abysmal, which isn't fair . I went to one of the top 5 universities in China with a tough grading system, I have no idea how CAS is going to evaluate Chinese UG grades, with such a heterogeneity in schools and grading systems. (Anyone else with Chinese UG cares to comment?)

Big question: In the worst case, if I get a "below average", how far can my 171 (1st try, June, will retake in Oct) bring me?

I also got a PhD at one point and over 20 publications in high ranking international science journals. Also, I was only 13 when I went to UG (crazy Youth Program in China), maybe that's addendum-worthy?

You should blanket the T14 - I think you'll probably get into at least one of CCN and maybe HYS (Because you have no GPA, your PhD and publications will definitely make up for bad UG grades)

[deluxe]

Hello Everyone! I am a law student at one of the Top 3 law schools in India and I plan to take the LSAT in a couple of years. Top 25% of my class, a couple of publications and decent work placements including one at the Supreme Court and a good law firm. Just wanted to know if past law students from other countries have an edge with respect to admissions. And, are foreign applicants eligible for educational loans in the US?

Foreign non-residents are not eligible for federal loan programs. You might be eligible for private loans, if you have a credit history or a co-signer
Being a foreigner, you (presumably) will big have an LSGPA. Don't even bother applying to schools if your LSAC is below the 25th percentile. Being foreign is a good soft, but still a soft, for most people. Any school where you're above the 75th percentile should accept you, probably with a partial scholarship.
Dont expect big money anywhere - that's usually reserved for people with high (75th percentile plus) scores for both GPA and LSAT

How come almost everybody here has "superior" GPA evaluation? So jealous of you guys. I'm still waiting for my evaluation, but if I use the LSAC method, my GPA would be abysmal, which isn't fair . I went to one of the top 5 universities in China with a tough grading system, I have no idea how CAS is going to evaluate Chinese UG grades, with such a heterogeneity in schools and grading systems. (Anyone else with Chinese UG cares to comment?)

Big question: In the worst case, if I get a "below average", how far can my 171 (1st try, June, will retake in Oct) bring me?

I also got a PhD at one point and over 20 publications in high ranking international science journals. Also, I was only 13 when I went to UG (crazy Youth Program in China), maybe that's addendum-worthy?

I believe you went to USTC for undergrad lol.

[BlackadderIn]

How come almost everybody here has "superior" GPA evaluation? So jealous of you guys. I'm still waiting for my evaluation, but if I use the LSAC method, my GPA would be abysmal, which isn't fair . I went to one of the top 5 universities in China with a tough grading system, I have no idea how CAS is going to evaluate Chinese UG grades, with such a heterogeneity in schools and grading systems. (Anyone else with Chinese UG cares to comment?)

Big question: In the worst case, if I get a "below average", how far can my 171 (1st try, June, will retake in Oct) bring me?

I also got a PhD at one point and over 20 publications in high ranking international science journals. Also, I was only 13 when I went to UG (crazy Youth Program in China), maybe that's addendum-worthy?

You should blanket the T14 - I think you'll probably get into at least one of CCN and maybe HYS (Because you have no GPA, your PhD and publications will definitely make up for bad UG grades)

Thanks Dingbat! From your lips to God's (and the Adcomms') ears:-)

[BlackadderIn]

I believe you went to USTC for undergrad lol.

Ohhh Insider!

[amycompton]

Hi Friends;
I am international student from Japan but I probably will be getting my green card soon. I have taken LSAT twice 154, 165 and planning on retaking in November. I have a GPA rank as "above average", was out of UG for 3 years. Not really sure what school I can get into, Really hoping to raise my score in November.

[dingbat]

Hi Friends;
I am international student from Japan but I probably will be getting my green card soon. I have taken LSAT twice 154, 165 and planning on retaking in November. I have a GPA rank as "above average", was out of UG for 3 years. Not really sure what school I can get into, Really hoping to raise my score in November.

Try to raise your score as high as you can. Then look at the rankings page.
If your LSAT is above the 75th percent, you'll probably get in
If it's between 25th & 75th percentile, you have a chance
Below the 25th percentile, you probably won't get in.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Hi Friends;
I am international student from Japan but I probably will be getting my green card soon. I have taken LSAT twice 154, 165 and planning on retaking in November. I have a GPA rank as "above average", was out of UG for 3 years. Not really sure what school I can get into, Really hoping to raise my score in November.

Try to raise your score as high as you can. Then look at the rankings page.
If your LSAT is above the 75th percent, you'll probably get in
If it's between 25th & 75th percentile, you have a chance
Below the 25th percentile, you probably won't get in.

+1

If you can get into the 170s, you will get acceptances from t14 schools. The "above average" might rule you out at HYS, but Columbia and below have accepted "above averages" before. The LSAT is all-important.

Also, if you can, get the green card before you apply; if you can't, make sure to mention in your applications that you expect to get a green card before attending law school. If you have a green card, you will be eligible for federal loans, which makes it more likely you will actually attend law school. Schools like that.

[dingbat]

I believe antipodeanphil means below average instead of above average

Point: I withdrew from being waitlisted at a T6 with an LSAT below the 25th percentile

[canon1845]

I was just wandering about the job prospects for us "internationals" upon graduation. With the US legal market in such awful condition, wouldn't it be even more challenging for us to get a legal job in the U.S. after we graduate?

[dingbat]

I was just wandering about the job prospects for us "internationals" upon graduation. With the US legal market in such awful condition, wouldn't it be even more challenging for us to get a legal job in the U.S. after we graduate?

Depends on whether or not you have work authorization (e.g. green card)