If you think going back t school will enhance your career... Forum

[MTal]

...prospects, think again. You will most likely become a part of "generation lost".

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/new ... index.html

[bk1]

Counterpoint: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=162356 (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/ ... money-live)

[shoeshine]

Cool





Edit: The proper responses to this were "Story" and "Bro".
--ImageRemoved--

[NYC Law]

I just wanted to post in an MTal thread.

[MTal]

Counterpoint: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0&t=162356 (http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/08/ ... money-live)

NPR says all's well for lawyers

"Chocolate rations are up!"

[MTal]

Cool





Edit: The proper responses to this were "Story" and "Bro".
--ImageRemoved--

Is this supposed to be some sort of pathetic attempt at humor?

[tyro]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

[MTal]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

[shoeshine]

Is this supposed to be some sort of pathetic attempt at humor?

No sir. I just have no idea what to say to you anymore. I get your point, law school is a huge risk and it may not be worth it for many people. You just keep posting these ridiculous articles and trying to trash the idea of going to law school. I know you have more time on your hands since you dropped out but please try to keep these three things in mind when trolling this forum:

1. As I have pointed out to you before, this is not the correct site to vent your frustration on. Start a scam blog or something but this forum is for people interested in actually going to law school (not dropping out).

2. The risks involved with going to law school and incurring debt are not breaking news to anyone who has been on TLS for more than ten minutes.

3. We are all aware of our grim job prospects and how much they differ from the stats published by our schools.

[NYC Law]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

You couldn't just sacrifice a "."?

No sir. I just have no idea what to say to you anymore. I get your point, law school is a huge risk and it may not be worth it for many people. You just keep posting these ridiculous articles and trying to trash the idea of going to law school. I know you have more time on your hands since you dropped out but please try to keep these three things in mind when trolling this forum:

At this point I think he's just trying to make living sound like a bad idea.

[MTal]

1. As I have pointed out to you before, this is not the correct site to vent your frustration on. Start a scam blog or something but this forum is for people interested in actually going to law school (not dropping out).

2. The risks involved with going to law school and incurring debt are not breaking news to anyone who has been on TLS for more than ten minutes.

3. We are all aware of our grim job prospects and how much they differ from the stats published by our schools.

The people who are going to law school are precisely the ones who need to be hearing the message. Repeatedly. The best way of making yourself useful to society is by doing actual work and gaining real-world experience, not by sitting in a classroom and regurgitating information on an exam. Also, law is primarily a service industry and in the service industry, sales ability is paramount, which law school does not teach you. There is literally no justification to pay for law school anymore, which the vast majority of posters on this board are doing.

[tyro]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

I read the article. Why don't you just go ahead and post your reasons for being so angry? I recall a post stating that you attended a T2 and ended up with a lot of debt and no job. I'm curious to know what you are doing now and how you are dealing with your situation.

[WhoIsDonDraper]

[cobrachailatte]

...prospects, think again. You will most likely become a part of "generation lost".

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/new ... index.html

To be fair, a more complete article might have also included "society & culture" into the fray of things either lost, or in desperate need of being found, the effects of which (and causes) aren't limited to just one particular generation. There's quite a lot to be frustrated with ITE and ITCountry, but directing that energy towards bashing any individual's educational pursuits in a LAW SCHOOL FORUM seems a bit misguided, don't you think? It's also more than a bit presumptuous; you don't know everyone's motivations here, so your generalized red flags come across as bitter, pedantic ranting.

[GATORTIM]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

You couldn't just sacrifice a "."?

or use "2"

"step up yo' vocab"

[Aberzombie1892]

Mtal, I understand how you feel. Many of my classmates have no marketable skills whatsoever. In fact, the average law school student must rely on having super high grades in law school to find a good entry level position.

I define the average law school student has having a liberal arts undergraduate major from some high ranked school (such a waste), no relevant intern/work experience, no advanced degrees, and an know-it-all attitude that makes them feel like they will succeed where their classmates fail. It's life.

The article, however, does not do a good job of conveying your message of going back to school not helping. It has a grouping that consists of three "retards" (excuse my french, and no offense); one person who should have gone back to school to get a Masters in Architecture; and one person who at first glance appears to have been screwed by getting an MBA, but at a closer look is aiming at a very niche portion of the job market during a bad economy (a bad decision by any standards).

The elephant in the room is that only one of the people in the article actually went back to school.

Thus, your article fails to convince anyone of anything. Although, I do understand how you feel and sympathize with it.

[Z3RO]

Anybody with any sense will direct all of their efforts towards increasing their viability as a janitor. This is the only real growth industry in America, and all you assholes with your fancy degrees and letters after your names are going to cry an ocean of tears when people like me are way more qualified than you are to put kitty litter on vomit and sweep it up.

[androstan]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

If you think returning to school will enhance your career...

[areyouinsane]

She's looking at going back to graduate school to get a masters in English, hoping that when she completes the program she'll find a better job market waiting for her.

I've got bad news for this gal - a masters will hurt, not help, your job search as a public school teacher. You see, school teacher pay is lockstep thanks to the unions. It is calculated based upon 2 factors: years worked and level of degree/education held. Here is a typical NJ school's pay chart:

http://static.hcrhs.k12.nj.us/gems/hr/TeachersGuide.pdf

Notice how one with a masters (or JD) starts at 5-10 K more a year than a bachelor's holder? Notice also how much steeper their increases in pay become over time?

The school districts are flat broke and do not want to take on people with grad degrees as these people command more $$$ both right out of the box and down the road too. I myself was dinged for a NJ public school teaching job solely because I have a JD, which put me at masters plus 45 credits per the school's calculation. The principal flat out told me if it was up to him I'd have been hired, but the Board of Ed. was simply not going to sign off on masters & JD candidates going forward.

As I've said, a non-Biglaw JD closes more doors than it opens, and usually reduces rather than increases one's earnings potential and lifestyle. Few grad programs offer the "trifecta" of boring subject matter, toxic debt, and hopelessly unemployable & incompetent practitioners. Are you guys insane?

[Icculus]

She's looking at going back to graduate school to get a masters in English, hoping that when she completes the program she'll find a better job market waiting for her.

I've got bad news for this gal - a masters will hurt, not help, your job search as a public school teacher. You see, school teacher pay is lockstep thanks to the unions. It is calculated based upon 2 factors: years worked and level of degree/education held. Here is a typical NJ school's pay chart:

http://static.hcrhs.k12.nj.us/gems/hr/TeachersGuide.pdf

Notice how one with a masters (or JD) starts at 5-10 K more a year than a bachelor's holder? Notice also how much steeper their increases in pay become over time?

The school districts are flat broke and do not want to take on people with grad degrees as these people command more $$$ both right out of the box and down the road too. I myself was dinged for a NJ public school teaching job solely because I have a JD, which put me at masters plus 45 credits per the school's calculation. The principal flat out told me if it was up to him I'd have been hired, but the Board of Ed. was simply not going to sign off on masters & JD candidates going forward.

As I've said, a non-Biglaw JD closes more doors than it opens, and usually reduces rather than increases one's earnings potential and lifestyle. Few grad programs offer the "trifecta" of boring subject matter, toxic debt, and hopelessly unemployable & incompetent practitioners. Are you guys insane?

You obviously have not taught in a public school. Most school systems in the U.S. REQUIRE a master's degree in order to be considered highly qualified. In Massachusetts you must be enrolled in an MA program within a year or two of being hired. In most school districts a master's degree is considered helpful, not hurtful. This person's issue is that there is an over saturation of English, Spanish, and social science teachers in the U.S.. Currently education has too many of these types of teachers and not enough math/science teachers.

[MTal]

In the incidence that a poster makes a crucial typing error in the title of his/her post which will ideally draw people to the ideas one perpetuates, I have to have a thought. I'm going to read what you posted though.

There wasn't enough room to write "to" dumbass.

I read the article. Why don't you just go ahead and post your reasons for being so angry? I recall a post stating that you attended a T2 and ended up with a lot of debt and no job. I'm curious to know what you are doing now and how you are dealing with your situation.

I went to a state T2 on scholarship, dropped out with 20k in debt. I was an econ major and now work in finance. Not only do I have a great salary/bonus which is equal to several times the amount of my debt, but my job has also taught me how to make good trades (especially when it comes to options (which are a type of financial derivative)) so now I don't need to hand over my money to some idiot financial planner. Instead I can trade my own way to retirement and realize the practical benefits of doing so.

The best "education" you can get is by working at a company that will teach you practical things that other people actually find useful. This is why the current generation of 20 somethings is truly "generation lost". Most have no marketable skills, literally nothing employers will find useful, and on top of that, have a giant anchor around their necks in the form of non-dischargeable debt. The higher education process in this country has become incredibly corrupt, where education administrators will literally say/do anything in order for you to sign over your life to them, including visiting homeless shelters and trying to get destitute brain damaged bums to sign up for classes. Law school and TLS are enablers of this system, where massive amounts of wealth is transferred from the younger generation, cutting their careers and life prospects short before they even had a chance to prove themselves. What is going on is truly a "generational holocaust" and the sooner you decline the invitation to get on the cattle cars, the sooner things will start to change for the better.

[Samara]

...prospects, think again. You will most likely become a part of "generation lost".

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/new ... index.html

So in this article, 0 out of 5 examples have any education beyond a bachelor's degree, 0 out of 5 are even considering law, 5 out of 5 found employment of some kind, and 4 out of 5 found freelance work in their field. How is this relevant?

[areyouinsane]

Maybe Mass. is different, but a LOT of people have had the same experience I have re: masters degrees:

http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/show ... p?t=142135

BTW my aunt is a junior-high school principal in NJ and she is currently under orders from the Board of Ed. not to interview anyone with higher than a BS/BA, so in NJ at least this is pretty common since the state is piss broke.

As the US moves deeper into depression and it's inevitable decline as an empire, higher education will again be the domain only of the uber-wealthy. Kids are already wising up to the fact that college is mostly an overpriced scam that leaves one worse off than a high school dropout.

[areyouinsane]

Law school and TLS are enablers of this system, where massive amounts of wealth is transferred from the younger generation, cutting their careers and life prospects short before they even had a chance to prove themselves. What is going on is truly a "generational holocaust" and the sooner you decline the invitation to get on the cattle cars, the sooner things will start to change for the better.

Spot on as always, MTal.

However, I do think most TLS kids are quite aware of how miserable and saturated the market is, and those heading to Top 14's with schollys still have a decent shot at Biglaw (except maybe GULC since they've soiled their rep. by becoming something of an over-enrolled diploma mill).

But you do have to crack up at the "Brooklyn 2014" and "What % at 'Bozo for Biglaw" kids. These rubes don't understand that they already lost the LSAT lottery, and no amount of re-checking that ticket is gonna get them the million-dollar prize. They fail to admit that they simply aren't cut out for the business, period.

[fanmingrui]

Maybe Mass. is different, but a LOT of people have had the same experience I have re: masters degrees:

http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/show ... p?t=142135

BTW my aunt is a junior-high school principal in NJ and she is currently under orders from the Board of Ed. not to interview anyone with higher than a BS/BA, so in NJ at least this is pretty common since the state is piss broke.

As the US moves deeper into depression and it's inevitable decline as an empire, higher education will again be the domain only of the uber-wealthy. Kids are already wising up to the fact that college is mostly an overpriced scam that leaves one worse off than a high school dropout.

Who would want to live in Jersey?