Law School Class of 2010 Starting Pay Fell 20% as Jobs Erode Forum

[robotclubmember]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-0 ... s-20-.html

Apologies if this has already been posted but I hadn't seen it. I'm not going to go into an analysis, just wanted to share this data so that less stupid people go to law school. Everyone on this forum has an excuse for why they're different, but face it, if you're not going to a T1 at minimum, very high chance you're flat out stupid. If you're going to a T50 but not a T14, 50-50 chance you're just plain stupid. The facts are everywhere now, and if you can't see them, you're stupid. The boat is full, there's no more room, sorry. The extra stupid bodies are just sinking the ship and ruining it for everyone else.

Starting salaries for last year’s U.S. law school graduates plummeted 20 percent as private practice jobs eroded, according to a report by the National Association for Law Placement.

The national median starting salary at law firms dropped to $104,000 from $130,000 in 2009, reflecting a shift in the distribution of jobs and salary adjustments at some firms, the NALP said today. The report cited information submitted by 192 laws schools and covering 93 percent of 2010 graduates.

Aggregate starting salaries fell because graduates found fewer jobs with high-paying large law firms and many more jobs with the smallest firms at lower salaries, Leipold said. More than half of the jobs taken by 2010 graduates were in firms with 50 or fewer attorneys. Jobs at firms with more than 250 attorneys fell to 26 percent from 33 percent in 2009.

The employment rate for 2010 law school graduates was 87.6 percent, down from a high of 91.9 percent for the 2007 class, the NALP said. Part-time jobs accounted for 11 percent and almost 27 percent were reported as temporary jobs, according to the survey.

Law School Graduate Scorecard

* 12.4% No Job
* 27.0% Temporary Job
* 11.0% Part Time Job

The total of those groups is a whopping 50.4%. However, some jobs may be temporary and part-time so the correct total is somewhere between 39.4% and 50.4%, probably towards the high side.

If you don't have a good plan and just want to leverage your lib arts degree into models and bottles, allow me to spare you the suspense: YOU ARE STUPID. If you are entering now you will go into one of the most crowded professional fields in the midst of the oncoming second recession (which assumes the first one ended which it didn't). There isn't a nice way to say it. Good day mates.

[TheFactor]

Cool

[bk1]

Those of us going to the T14 are still stupid.

[TheFactor]

Those of us going to the T14 are still stupid.

This.

[Threepeat]

I'm not going to go into an analysis

O rly??

[WSJ_Law]

LOL at "I'm not going to go into an analysis" > lengthy analysis

[Bill Cosby]

If you don't have a good plan and just want to leverage your lib arts degree into models and bottles, allow me to spare you the suspense: YOU ARE STUPID. If you are entering now you will go into one of the most crowded professional fields in the midst of the oncoming second recession (which assumes the first one ended which it didn't). There isn't a nice way to say it. Good day mates.

Good to know OP has his own special definition of recession.

[robotclubmember]

if you think that's lengthy you just haven't seen my other posts :p

i'm mentally braced for the possibility of falling back on my prior and much stabler career, but I think that in t14, the majority of graduates are satisfied with their options. there is an exception to every rule and the exception may be arising more frequently, but a decent job that requires a jd is still the rule for t14 grads.

i like the dismissive replies from people who are in denial and simply trying to cultivate their delusions of models and bottles. you don't gotta reply if you have nothing to add to the collective intel of the group, dude, it's not hard.

[robotclubmember]

If you don't have a good plan and just want to leverage your lib arts degree into models and bottles, allow me to spare you the suspense: YOU ARE STUPID. If you are entering now you will go into one of the most crowded professional fields in the midst of the oncoming second recession (which assumes the first one ended which it didn't). There isn't a nice way to say it. Good day mates.

Good to know OP has his own special definition of recession.

no less special than the government's definition of recovery

[rayiner]

If you don't have a good plan and just want to leverage your lib arts degree into models and bottles, allow me to spare you the suspense: YOU ARE STUPID. If you are entering now you will go into one of the most crowded professional fields in the midst of the oncoming second recession (which assumes the first one ended which it didn't). There isn't a nice way to say it. Good day mates.

Good to know OP has his own special definition of recession.

no less special than the government's definition of recovery

"Recession" as in "recede." The government defining 0.1% growth as "recovery" might be stupid, but defining recession to include any level of >= 0 growth is just wrong.

[robotclubmember]

If you don't have a good plan and just want to leverage your lib arts degree into models and bottles, allow me to spare you the suspense: YOU ARE STUPID. If you are entering now you will go into one of the most crowded professional fields in the midst of the oncoming second recession (which assumes the first one ended which it didn't). There isn't a nice way to say it. Good day mates.

Good to know OP has his own special definition of recession.

no less special than the government's definition of recovery

"Recession" as in "recede." The government defining 0.1% growth as "recovery" might be stupid, but defining recession to include any level of >= 0 growth is just wrong.

jobs are bleeding out and the growth barely matches inflation, and may even be less than inflation rates if we could rely on the govt to report inflation rates honestly (which they don't). This may meet the technical criteria of a recovery, but get real. It was propped up by insane govt spending and aggressive monetary policy, not actual productivity or jobs. Ask any middle class family, or moody's, if they think this is a recovery.

[scammedhard]

Recession? Recovery? Whatever... the fact is that we are in a deep hole and this graph speaks for itself:

[rayiner]

Again, the word "recession" implies shrinking GDP. We can be in a huge hole relative to 2007 (and we are, no doubt about that) and still not be in a recession.

[robotclubmember]

Again, the word "recession" implies shrinking GDP. We can be in a huge hole relative to 2007 (and we are, no doubt about that) and still not be in a recession.

do ypu believe the growth we are experiencing outpaces real inflation? And do you think the growth is a result of real comercial and consumer products? Do you think any of this 'increase' is improving the lives of ordinary slave-wage serfs?

lets use the term honestly, not technically. 'technically' we have 9.2% unemployment. Honestly, it's probably colser to 20%. 'technically' we MAY not be in a recession (growth has to outpace inflaton to be real growth, it's a debatable point if that is happening). Though I feel that as long as we have 'receded' beneath peak production, we are in a recession. By technical terms, once we have a more honest set of facts, I feel it is likely we would find this is not a recovery. Cheerleading from bernanke and dubious claims that it is doesn't work. The people who write the rules on what a recovery is and then insiting we are in one is as honest as the ABA writing the rules for employment reporting and then schools boasting 99% employment. It's a farce. This is not a recovery.

[Bill Cosby]

If conditions not improving for regular people is your definition of recession, we've been in one for 30 years.

[robotclubmember]

If conditions not improving for regular people is your definition of recession, we've been in one for 30 years.

even if real wages are stagnant the quality of life is much improved through production of new technologies. Computers and cell phones are just one example. There was far less consumer debt and national debt, and less unemployment in previous years as well. As all things in life, it's a complex constellation of factors and you've over-simplified what I'm saying. I don't even think growth is outpacing inflation anyway, and unemployment is rising. I do consider hard metrics ya know.

[fundamentallybroken]

just wanted to share this data so that less stupid people go to law school.

*fewer

[Bill Cosby]

GDP has increased the last seven quarters...

[robotclubmember]

GDP has increased the last seven quarters...

you haven't heard anything I said have you?

[MTal]

GDP has increased the last seven quarters...

you haven't heard anything I said have you?

I propose an alliance.

[rayiner]

Though I feel that as long as we have 'receded' beneath peak production, we are in a recession..

This isn't some bullshit philosophy class where you get to define terms based on how you "feel." Recession has a well-defined meaning, given by the root-word of the term. You can't just define it another way. If you want to harp about the poor economy, just say so in words that mean what you think they mean, rather than misusing words and making yourself look stupid.

[Bill Cosby]

GDP has increased the last seven quarters...

you haven't heard anything I said have you?

Yeah, I've heard your claim that the government is cooking the books.

[robotclubmember]

GDP has increased the last seven quarters...

you haven't heard anything I said have you?

I propose an alliance.

I'm allied with all humans by default, lol. I'm sharing information that I believe is material on a forum whose express purpose is to share material information. I'm just concerned at the lack of reality appreciation that is being enjoyed by law school applicants. The number of students matriculating despite the documented and corroborated dearth of opportunities in the legal field is proof that applicants must just be unaware or in denial of the points I set out to make. The rampant denial appears to be some kind of coping method to deal with the ostensibly poor decisions of doubling down on a useless lib arts degree with a useless law degree.

[robotclubmember]

Though I feel that as long as we have 'receded' beneath peak production, we are in a recession..

This isn't some bullshit philosophy class where you get to define terms based on how you "feel." Recession has a well-defined meaning, given by the root-word of the term. You can't just define it another way. If you want to harp about the poor economy, just say so in words that mean what you think they mean, rather than misusing words and making yourself look stupid.

congrats, you picked up on what was objectively the weakest part of my argument and ignored every other point. Because you're unable to address them? I don't know. I'll ask again, do you reeeaally believe that gdp is outpacing inflation. Because if it's not, that just isn't a recovery. And I don't believe that it truly is. And how do you explain rising unemployment. Arithmetic still matters.

[Bill Cosby]

Though I feel that as long as we have 'receded' beneath peak production, we are in a recession..

This isn't some bullshit philosophy class where you get to define terms based on how you "feel." Recession has a well-defined meaning, given by the root-word of the term. You can't just define it another way. If you want to harp about the poor economy, just say so in words that mean what you think they mean, rather than misusing words and making yourself look stupid.

congrats, you picked up on what was objectively the weakest part of my argument and ignored every other point. Because you're unable to address them? I don't know. I'll ask again, do you reeeaally believe that gdp is outpacing inflation. Because if it's not, that just isn't a recovery. And I don't believe that it truly is. And how do you explain rising unemployment. Arithmetic still matters.

Your entire argument is weak. We're basically being ask to take you word for it when you say the books are cooked.