LSDAS GPA 3.1, 3.27 otherwise Forum

[powermike]

This is common topic. I just have a specific question.

I did one year of community college straight out of HS. I got 2 Fs and 1 D that year. I took two years off to volunteer and retook those classes after coming back. I know that those classes are factored into my LSDAS GPA and there is nothing I can do about it.

Assuming I can crack 173/4 on the LSAT, with my masters and some legit work experience (the 2 years volunteering and another 2-3 years of policy analysis work) would I be able to get into a top 12 with an LSDAS GPA of 3.11 when my GPA is 3.25 without the Fs and D factored in? What schools may take a holistic approach and judge those three bad grades to be non-indicative since I have done better since (my masters GPA exceeds 3.7 at a renowned school)? Please don't just say ED UVa and NW. I'm looking for advice from people who can either relate or know more than just these cliche responses. Feel free to PM me if you prefer.

[txadv11]

I think people will tell you two things on this: 1. Come back when you've got the 173-174, and 2. I really think ED UVA and ED NU are your best chances. (I know you don't want to hear that) Also I think UVA would be a "possibly, if early" vs previous years you'd have a "likely"
GPA floors suck.
Georgetown?

ETA: Also, don't think about the 3.27 any further. You've got a 3.11. Sure, write a compelling addenda if you've got a decent reason, but remember MANY applicants have similar sitatuions (I had a 3.4 walking the stage and 3.1 for LSAC purposes just like you)

[Corwin]

Do you at least have a practice test average that suggests a 173/4 is doable? Also, UVa and NU are not cliche responses. They are brought up because they are the most splitter friendly of top schools when it comes to people with your kind of numbers.

[powermike]

I am not dismayed by UVa or NW, it's only that I'd like to hear what other top 12 options are viable for someone with my other qualifications. Also, I have a stronger interest in government law than private sector, so NW isn't as preferable for me even though I will probably still apply there (I suppose lots of distinguished public servants did go to NW). I am looking for people with similar stats that managed to get into some top schools. I'd like to hear what they think set them apart from others.

And yes, I have reason to believe that a 174 is doable. I've taken lots of practice tests, including diagnostics through the LSAT workshop companies, and have scored at or above 168 every time. I think after sustained serious studying I'd be able to lock it down pat. Granted practice scores are practice scores, but I've never really prepared for it.

[Corwin]

I am not dismayed by UVa or NW, it's only that I'd like to hear what other top 12 options are viable for someone with my other qualifications. Also, I have a stronger interest in government law than private sector, so NW isn't as preferable for me even though I will probably still apply there. After all, lots of distinguished public servants went to NW.

And yes, I have reason to believe that a 174 is doable. I've taken around lots of practice tests, including diagnostics through the LSAT workshop companies, and have scored at or above 168 every time. I think after sustained serious studying I'd be able to lock it down pat. Granted practice scores are practice scores, but I've never really prepared for it.

I'm in a similar situation as you, scoring 174 on practice tests with <100 hours of preparation. I still don't think a score of 170+ is down pat. There's no guarantee for anything when you are talking about 99th percentile and higher. I'm not trying to discourage you, but don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

[powermike]

I don't mean to say that I have "counted my chickens." I am somewhat confident that I can do it, but acknowledge the uncertainty by saying things like, "assuming I can crack 173/4..." All I want to know is, if I do manage that high a score, what are the top schools to which I can reasonably aim given my other factors?

[dpk711]

I'm looking for advice from people who can either relate or know more than just these cliche responses.

Talking of cliches, why does almost everyone here assume that they will score in the 99th percentile? But assuming that you do get a 173, you will have a good shot at the lower T14. MVP, especially V would be in contention with ED. CCN would still be almost out of the question though. Also masters GPA doesn't really matter. Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

[powermike]

I'm looking for advice from people who can either relate or know more than just these cliche responses.

Talking of cliches, why does almost everyone here assume that they will score in the 99th percentile? But assuming that you do get a 173, you will have a good shot at the lower T14. MVP, especially V would be in contention with ED. CCN would still be almost out of the question though. Also masters GPA doesn't really matter. Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

Let me be clear, I am looking for productive advice. While I see value in knowing "MVP" are decent options, I can spend 5 minutes on the forum and learn that on my own, which is why I asked specifically for replies that could mention something new. I was interested in hearing from those who managed to get into NYU, Duke, UT, and the like even though their numbers were similar to mine.

Lastly, while I believe this site's posters are genuinely informed folk, most have never attended law school a day in their life. So when I hear things like a master's GPA doesn't really matter, I am skeptical. It's vastly different from what I hear from people in my program, students already admitted to law school and faculty. Yes, law schools covet the numbers that rankings are based on, but if that was all that mattered there would be no "splitters" anywhere, not at "MVP" and not anywhere else.

And what is cliche about asking what schools I can attend if I manage a certain LSAT score? I am not claiming to be able to score that without a shadow of a doubt, I am simply asking if I do achieve that, where can I apply? I was specific in what I was asking for. So far, there has been one fully informative post. I wasn't expecting a lot of replies simply because these kinds of splitters are rare, but I did want to know if I had anything in common with them.

[Corwin]

I'm looking for advice from people who can either relate or know more than just these cliche responses.

Talking of cliches, why does almost everyone here assume that they will score in the 99th percentile? But assuming that you do get a 173, you will have a good shot at the lower T14. MVP, especially V would be in contention with ED. CCN would still be almost out of the question though. Also masters GPA doesn't really matter. Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.

Let me be clear, I am looking for productive advice. While I see value in knowing "MVP" are decent options, I can spend 5 minutes on the forum and learn that on my own, which is why I asked specifically for replies that could mentions something new. I was interested in hearing from those who managed to get into NYU, Duke, UT, and the like even though their numbers were similar to mine.

Lastly, while I believe this site's posters are genuinely informed folk, most have never attended law school a day in their life. So when I hear things like a master's GPA doesn't really matter, I am skeptical. It's vastly different from what I hear from people in my program, students already admitted to law school and faculty. Yes, law schools covet the numbers that rankings are based on, but if that was all that mattered there would be no "splitters" anywhere, not at "MVP" and not anywhere else.

And what is cliche about asking what schools I can attend if I manage a certain LSAT score? I am not claiming to be able to score that without a shadow of a doubt, I am simply asking if I do achieve that, where can I apply? I was specific in what I was asking for. So far, there has been one fully informative post.

Grad school GPA is a soft factor. This isn't guesswork by TLS forum members, it's a fact gleaned from years of admission statistics. Also, what's your basis for assuming that >50% of TLS forum members have never attended law school? This could be true, but what data are you using as a basis for your assertion? Finally, if you really are only interested in feedback from people with your numbers, you should use TLS statistics and PM users that you are interested in.

[sundance95]

~3.1, 172, got into UVA ED. Here are your steps to success:

1) Stop claiming that posters here, whom you asked for assistance, don't know what they are talking about just because they aren't telling you what you want to hear.
2) Forget about having a 3.1 LSDAS and a '3.27 otherwise.' It doesn't matter-only one is reported to USNWR.
3) Stop thinking of grad GPA as a boost. Many people have grad degrees. Anyone with a pulse who shows up to class gets a decent grad GPA. Adcoms don't care.
4) Get a real LSAT score. Score at least 170, preferable more.
5) ED. Take six figure debt plunge.
6) ???


Note the conspicuous lack of 'profit'.

[powermike]

~3.1, 172, got into UVA ED. Here are your steps to success:

1) Stop claiming that posters here, whom you asked for assistance, don't know what they are talking about just because they aren't telling you what you want to hear.
2) Forget about having a 3.1 LSDAS and a '3.27 otherwise.' It doesn't matter-only one is reported to USNWR.
3) Stop thinking of grad GPA as a boost. Many people have grad degrees. Anyone with a pulse who shows up to class gets a decent grad GPA. Adcoms don't care.
4) Get a real LSAT score. Score at least 170, preferable more.
5) ED. Take six figure debt plunge.
6) ???


Note the conspicuous lack of 'profit'.

1) Thank you for what substance did exist in this post.
2) I am not claiming that posters here do not know what they are talking about, I am claiming that some deny the value of things that set some applicants apart.
3) What's wrong with being upset for not hearing what I want to hear? I asked a clear question and one person gave a decent answer, then you came along and gave a half-decent answer. What I wanted was: if anyone has numbers like these and managed to get into top 12 schools other than UVa or NW (I can read that those are options anywhere on this forum), please share what other qualifications you feel elevated you.
4) I will get a real LSAT score, and if it is lower than my target then this thread is moot. If it annoys anyone that I ask a hypothetical question, they shouldn't answer it. If I reach my target score I will be grateful to any (actual) advice I get here.
5) Despite a few judging that master's GPAs don't count, I shall go on ahead thinking that they do. I am not deluding myself into thinking that a high master's GPA will singlehandedly get me into Yale, but I do think that having a master's degree and doing well in the program is a strong soft factor that will be looked upon favorably by some adcomms. In the event that I would have been a borderline admit without a master's, I will be a stronger consideration with one.

[sundance95]

I take back what I said about your masters. After all, it is from a renowned university. Megasoft.

Also, you'll definitely score in the top two percent of test takers, because of your demonstrated ability to synthesize available information.

Don't let the naysayers get you down. You were clearly born and bred for success and achievement.

[powermike]

Let's give it up for sundance everybody. The 21 year-old authority on academia, law school, and life.

[sundance95]

Let's give it up for sundance everybody. The 21 year-old authority on academia, law school, and life.

ad hom ftw

[powermike]

I take back what I said about your masters. After all, it is from a renowned university. Megasoft.

Also, you'll definitely score in the top two percent of test takers, because of your demonstrated ability to synthesize available information.

Don't let the naysayers get you down. You were clearly born and bred for success and achievement.

right, because this was so relevant. Especially the part where you relentlessly obsess over your mistaken idea that I claim to test into the top 2% when I don't know how many times I've said it was an assumption. Control F "if" or "assuming" or "hypothetical."

idiot

[sundance95]

I think you misunderstand. I don't think you claim to have scored 170+; I just think you are incapable of doing so, given your insistence on your special-snowflakeness re grad GPA, despite the large body of evidence on this website to the contrary that that you claim to have reviewed so thoroughly.

[fatduck]

something i always wonder about these threads: what answer could you possibly be looking for? it sounds like you want a post like this: "i had your exact (hypothetical) qualifications, and i was accepted to Duke. in my acceptance letter, they stated that including a recommendation from an English teacher was crucial. make sure you do that or you won't get in." these posts don't exist.

you already know what law schools you are most likely to be accepted to. if there are others you want to make a reach for, here's what you do: SEND THEM AN APPLICATION. if you want to know whether people with your numbers have been admitted to particular law schools, start browsing LSN. most people list their other qualifications, like grad degrees/work experience, on their profiles.

[Corwin]

I take back what I said about your masters. After all, it is from a renowned university. Megasoft.

Also, you'll definitely score in the top two percent of test takers, because of your demonstrated ability to synthesize available information.

Don't let the naysayers get you down. You were clearly born and bred for success and achievement.

right, because this was so relevant. Especially the part where you relentlessly obsess over your mistaken idea that I claim to test into the top 2% when I don't know how many times I've said it was an assumption. Control F "if" or "assuming" or "hypothetical."

idiot

People on this forum are harsh towards those that don't have an LSAT score blessed in holy water and signed by the Pope (as I discovered in my first thread). What's important is that you read between the lines of the vitriol and realize that a score of 170+ takes a lot more work than you think it does. There are tons of people with excellent scores on HS standardized testing who don't realize that the LSAT isn't like the ACT; you can't just go into it and except to score 99% or higher. You have to prep and you have to do well on exam day. That's all posters are getting at; it really isn't anything personal.

[powermike]

Thank you to the last two posters for their remarks.

This thread has turned out to be futile.

Based on practice LSATs I have been hoping to perform in the low to mid 170s. This is not a given. I have made clear that I understand this. I can't be any clearer than I have already been that this is merely a target.

All I wanted was for people who felt that they got into the better schools with above par (worse) numbers than what is usual to share what they felt set them apart. It really doesn't seem very complicated to me.

The only time I ever tried to dissuade people from posting was by saying that if they were going to post nothing more than ED Va and NW, not to bother because that is already posted everywhere.

Since I have learned nothing here, I will just go forward with my plans without making any adjustments, which was to apply wherever I wanted to go.

I consider this thread dead and welcome it's deletion.

[dpk711]

Thank you to the last two posters for their remarks.

This thread has turned out to be futile.

Based on practice LSATs I have been hoping to perform in the low to mid 170s. This is not a given. I have made clear that I understand this. I can't be any clearer than I have already been that this is merely a target.

All I wanted was for people who felt that they got into the better schools with above par (worse) numbers than what is usual to share what they felt set them apart. It really doesn't seem very complicated to me.

The only time I ever tried to dissuade people from posting was by saying that if they were going to post nothing more than ED Va and NW, not to bother because that is already posted everywhere.

Since I have learned nothing here, I will just go forward with my plans without making any adjustments, which was to apply wherever I wanted to go.

I consider this thread dead and welcome it's deletion.

Sorry if I sounded like a douche, I didn't mean it, but I just wanted to convey the message that a 173+ is not exactly a walk in the park. I still want to stand firm in my position that grad school GPA does not really matter and that you will have virtually no chance in getting in CCN and higher.

[splitmuch]

Thank you to the last two posters for their remarks.

This thread has turned out to be futile.

Based on practice LSATs I have been hoping to perform in the low to mid 170s. This is not a given. I have made clear that I understand this. I can't be any clearer than I have already been that this is merely a target.

All I wanted was for people who felt that they got into the better schools with above par (worse) numbers than what is usual to share what they felt set them apart. It really doesn't seem very complicated to me.

The only time I ever tried to dissuade people from posting was by saying that if they were going to post nothing more than ED Va and NW, not to bother because that is already posted everywhere.

Since I have learned nothing here, I will just go forward with my plans without making any adjustments, which was to apply wherever I wanted to go.

I consider this thread dead and welcome it's deletion.

Sorry if I sounded like a douche, I didn't mean it, but I just wanted to convey the message that a 173+ is not exactly a walk in the park. I still want to stand firm in my position that grad school GPA does not really matter and that you will have virtually no chance in getting in CCN and higher.

Not just no chance of CCN or higher, no chance at Duke, berkley, or penn either. Very slight chance a t UM with an incredible application and you better have more softs than just the masters. No chance at UVA without ED, posssible with it. I got in NWwithout NW andwith a 3.1 and less than a year WE so its possible to do RD if you really do kill the LSAT but you also better interview and do a why NW. Apply early to GULC and Cornell and express specific interest and you have decent shots at both with the high LSAT. The reason no one with a 3.1 who got into Duke or Penn or CCN has responded isn't because they are ignoring you. Its because they don't exist.