How significant is 25k-30k more debt over three years? Forum

bartleby · Post by **bartleby** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:17 am

This isn't a "tell me where to thread" - just wanted to get an idea of how many people would consider $25k more over three years as a dealbreaker between peer schools.

I've decided I want to stay in TX and am deciding between U. Houston and SMU. The difference in tuition would probably be around $5k w/ UH being cheaper. However, I could live at home 2L and 3L and save ~$24k in rent. I talked to a pretty big hot shot lawyer who basically said the $25k will go a long way ITE but wanted to know student/prospective students thoughts.

Also, not sure if this is important because stats are all fudged but SMU has something like a 45% rate at 75k starting whereas UH has something like 35% at 65k starting.

Lastly, UH's scholarship - 20k of 40k is upfront. I know the golden rule is to never assume you can transfer but I would like to transfer if I could (and definitely wouldn't mind staying).

Anyway, back to the question at hand, is 25k more when I assume my total debt to be 70k a deal breaker? Thx.

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.

WhirledWorld · Post by **WhirledWorld** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:31 pm

Sandro · Post by **Sandro** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:54 pm

scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.

wut? Did you read OP or just decide to spew that out automatically ?

FeelTheHeat · Post by **FeelTheHeat** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:57 pm

Sandro wrote:
scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.
wut? Did you read OP or just decide to spew that out automatically ?

Lol

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:05 pm

Sandro wrote:
scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.
wut? Did you read OP or just decide to spew that out automatically ?

I did read the OP. The post simply did not make (financial) sense to me, and so I decided to offer an unsolicited opinion. I apologize for not addressing the main point, but I do solemnly believe that those schools, under the terms described, are really bad options.

bartleby · Post by **bartleby** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:09 pm

What's T1? T14?

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:13 pm

bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?

Really? If you truly don't know the answers to those questions then you have not done enough research to make an informed decision about law school. Specially, if you are going to fund the law school adventure (gamble) with students loans.

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:18 pm

bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?

But if you are asking if Tier 1 = T14, It would say no. Tier 1 is about the Top 50 schools according to the USNWR ranking, whereas T14 is the Top 14 schools in the same ranking. Now that Texas in the Top 14, though, some are using the updated T13 rather than T14 to exclude Texas.

bartleby · Post by **bartleby** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:19 pm

scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?
Really? If you truly don't know the answers to those questions then you have not done enough research to make an informed decision about law school. Specially, if you are going to fund the law school adventure (gamble) with students loans.

lol, i guess i agree that neither of these schools are "worth it" but i think they're okay value even in this economy. i have a useless UG degree and am humping a dead-end 40k year job. i'll gamble.

bartleby · Post by **bartleby** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:20 pm

scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?
But if you are if Tier 1 = T14, It would say no. Tier 1 is about the Top 50 schools according to the USNWR ranking, whereas T14 is the Top 14 schools in the same ranking. Now that Texas in the Top 14, though, some are using the updated T13 rather than T14 to exclude Texas.

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:22 pm

bartleby wrote:
scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?
Really? If you truly don't know the answers to those questions then you have not done enough research to make an informed decision about law school. Specially, if you are going to fund the law school adventure (gamble) with students loans.
lol, i guess i agree that neither of these schools are "worth it" but i think they're okay value even in this economy. i have a useless UG degree and am humping a dead-end 40k year job. i'll gamble.

How can something be of value if it is not worth it?

Ty Webb · Post by **Ty Webb** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:25 pm

scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?
But if you are asking if Tier 1 = T14, It would say no. Tier 1 is about the Top 50 schools according to the USNWR ranking, whereas T14 is the Top 14 schools in the same ranking. Now that Texas in the Top 14, though, some are using the updated T13 rather than T14 to exclude Texas.

Acting as if #50 is a meaningful distinction is a joke, especially given the OP's post. UH and its pull in the unsaturated and still strong Houston legal market make the school a better bet than LOTS of schools in front of it.

FeelTheHeat · Post by **FeelTheHeat** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:25 pm

scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.

Nice alt there, buddy.

GodDAMN, this was hard to find.

--ImageRemoved--

Ty Webb · Post by **Ty Webb** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:27 pm

scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:
scammedhard wrote:
bartleby wrote:What's T1? T14?
Really? If you truly don't know the answers to those questions then you have not done enough research to make an informed decision about law school. Specially, if you are going to fund the law school adventure (gamble) with students loans.
lol, i guess i agree that neither of these schools are "worth it" but i think they're okay value even in this economy. i have a useless UG degree and am humping a dead-end 40k year job. i'll gamble.
How can something be of value if it is not worth it?

Because value, at least in the higher education conversation, implies getting a substantially similar education/opportunities for a lower cost. Compared to most options, UH in-state is a value. Whether law school itself, or law schools in that range are a value as a whole is not really the issue here.

FWIW, UH in-state with a nice scholarship and reduced cost of living is not the worst decision you could make.

mpj_3050 · Post by **mpj_3050** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:30 pm

25-30k extra isn't horrible w/ IBR when you first start. Buy a 10k used car, live in a cheaper apartment, pre-game, and don't eat out too much and you can get it paid down. 70k isn't that bad overall.

I would go with Houston but it is your choice.

scammedhard · Post by **scammedhard** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:34 pm

Ty Webb wrote:Because value, at least in the higher education conversation, implies getting a substantially similar education/opportunities for a lower cost. Compared to most options, UH in-state is a value. Whether law school itself, or law schools in that range are a value as a whole is not really the issue here.

FWIW, UH in-state with a nice scholarship and reduced cost of living is not the worst decision you could make.

True, and it is truly sad "law school itself, or law schools in that range are a value as a whole is not really the issue here" because I would have thought that this issue was the most important one. After all, why would one force onto oneself two bad options?

Stringer Bell · Post by **Stringer Bell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:42 pm

scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.

Nice advice. OP said they had a scholarship to UH. So you think it's unwise to attend now, but if the school passes Loyola and Pepperdine and moves into the top 50 tie when USNWR releases their next set of rankings it'll be an okay decision?

MattThiessen · Post by **MattThiessen** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:43 pm

The answer to your question: it depends.

Assuming you are trying to pay your loans back within 10 years, $30k extra would be approximately an extra $350 per month. That's really not too bad, if you are gainfully employed.

Stringer Bell · Post by **Stringer Bell** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:02 pm

MattThiessen wrote:The answer to your question: it depends.

Assuming you are trying to pay your loans back within 10 years, $30k extra would be approximately an extra $350 per month. That's really not too bad, if you are gainfully employed.

The bolded is pretty credited. $350 a month isn't crazy, but it's definitely real money. If you are making 60k a year (which could still be pretty tough to pull off) the difference in terms of either location or quality of an apartment that costs $650 a month versus one that costs $1000 a month is pretty significant.

If $30k can buy you substantially better career prospects then it's completely worth it, but I'm not sure that SMU does that.

FeelTheHeat · Post by **FeelTheHeat** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:03 pm

FWIW, I gave up 20k to go to UF over FSU, and I don't regret it for a second.

Post by **vanwinkle** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:05 pm

How important is the choice between Houston and Dallas?

(Keep in mind that this is not only a question about where to live during law school, but that each school places most strongly into its home city and you'll have networking opportunities during the school year in the city you choose, so it could affect where you end up working when you graduate at least a little.)

If the answer is "a lot", then choose the city you want to attend most. If the answer is "a little", follow the money. At least, that's my opinion.

Sandro · Post by **Sandro** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:31 pm

scammedhard wrote:
Sandro wrote:
scammedhard wrote:Both seem like awful options to me because they are debt-traps.

Retake, Reapply, and attend ONLY Tier 1 schools on an scholarship.
wut? Did you read OP or just decide to spew that out automatically ?
I did read the OP. The post simply did not make (financial) sense to me, and so I decided to offer an unsolicited opinion. I apologize for not addressing the main point, but I do solemnly believe that those schools, under the terms described, are really bad options.

So you believe SMU and UH for 75k are "debt traps"? Go back to Macdonalds.

bartleby · Post by **bartleby** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:54 pm

thanks for the info and debate. $350 more a month doesn't seem that bad. i guess if i went that route, i would just cut out starbucks for...10 years...

minnbills · Post by **minnbills** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:13 pm

Don't let someone hijack the OP's thread, that's my opinion.

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