is getting a degree from a prestigious university important? Forum

[deblaw]

When applying to T-14 law schools, is getting a B.A from a prestigious university a factor that determines the chance of being accepted?

[MrPapagiorgio]

A very tiny boost. At best, it's negligible.

[LiveFreeOrLaw]

Prestigious university = ?

[ladybug89]

HYP definitely helps, maybe a small boost for people who go to other schools of similar reputation. (Reputation, not caliber.) But going to a non-prestigious school doesn't hurt you.

[bhan87]

4.0 from a TTT state university > 3.0 from HYP. Minimize your debt and rack up those A's. Don't worry too much about your school's reputation.

[The Gentleman]

4.0 from a TTT state university > 3.0 from HYP. Minimize your debt and rack up those A's. Don't worry too much about your school's reputation.

True, but going to a lower tiered UG can definitely hold you back in the admissions process. I got a >3.9 from a TTTT and I'm pretty sure it's kept me out of some schools that I would have otherwise gotten into. (U Chi in particular)

[neonx]

It's a soft. But it can work in your favor if you have a high GPA from said prestigious university.

[ahduth]

HYP definitely helps

Why do you say that?

[Patriot1208]

HYP definitely helps

Why do you say that?

There has been some anecdotal evidence that people from harvard have gotten into harvard law school with lower than median numbers, but I haven't seen anything beyond that.

[MTal]

It's actually spelled "presTTTige."

[ladybug89]

HYP definitely helps

Why do you say that?

I go to one (unfortunately) and I've seen people outperform their lower numbers (like people on the lower ends of a school's ranges are much more likely to get in than the average person on the lower end). In a lot of threads like these TLSers say it's because people at HYP have access to more internships/prestigious programs/other softs, which is probably partly true, but I think the affiliation itself helps too.

[Stanford4Me]

Not as much as people here think it does.

[ahduth]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

[neonx]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

I could agree that, on average, it's mostly a numbers game.

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

[AreJay711]

I think going to HYP or other Ivies can help you do other impressive things that may actually help. In school, you will have more impressive and interesting opportunities and as a graduate you should be able to find better career options immediately before law school. At the same time it probably isn't worth debt nor the the likely increase in competition so I'd choose (I actually did) the state school.

[ahduth]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

I could agree that, on average, it's mostly a numbers game.

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

Sweet, I got him within 8 minutes. IIRC, you're an example of someone drastically outperforming their numbers, which is why I brought you up. But you're obviously a smart guy who communicates well and has an interesting story. People with your cycle are pretty few and far between though. And I'm rather skeptical that many of them are outperforming because of HYP.

I'll agree with you that it's on average a numbers game, but only because so few people outperform or underperform their numbers. This is why you apply to reach schools after all. They're reaches - you don't count on them.

[bhan87]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

I could agree that, on average, it's mostly a numbers game.

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

I think this point is dead on. The type of people who gets into Ivies are, in general, already top quality material. But this doesn't mean that going to a lower-tier school disadvantages you significantly.

[SisyphusHappy]

No. HTH.

[tallboone]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

I could agree that, on average, it's mostly a numbers game.

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

I think this point is dead on. The type of people who gets into Ivies are, in general, already top quality material. But this doesn't mean that going to a lower-tier school disadvantages you significantly.

This seems to be right. At the top schools, there are a lot more people from prestigious schools (Ivies/equivalent, selective liberal arts colleges, top public universities) than schools nobody has ever heard of. Causation or correlation? Impossible to tell.

[fatduck]

it's much more important to have wealthy parents.

[KibblesAndVick]

subtle anti-B.S. trolling

[Patriot1208]

I'll grant this stuff can matter at the margins. But if you're really looking to beef up your application try... serving in the military, for example. As a soft HYP is meh at best I'd think. Are the HYPers who outperformed on LSN? There's no easy way to search for them that I can think of.

In the end it's almost entirely a numbers game. I know I'm going to get neonx in here telling me it's not, but for the vast majority of people, these softs only matter if you're exactly at the median.

I could agree that, on average, it's mostly a numbers game.

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

I think this point is dead on. The type of people who gets into Ivies are, in general, already top quality material. But this doesn't mean that going to a lower-tier school disadvantages you significantly.

This seems to be right. At the top schools, there are a lot more people from prestigious schools (Ivies/equivalent, selective liberal arts colleges, top public universities) than schools nobody has ever heard of. Causation or correlation? Impossible to tell.

I imagined the guy from unsolved mysteries saying this.

[09042014]

There is no single answer because each admissions committee/dean handle soft factors differently. It's not worth worrying about because it's at best a slight factor and in most cases it doesn't exist. In any case, there isn't a damn thing you can do now.

[09042014]

This seems to be right. At the top schools, there are a lot more people from prestigious schools (Ivies/equivalent, selective liberal arts colleges, top public universities) than schools nobody has ever heard of. Causation or correlation? Impossible to tell.

If you had good data it would be trivial to calculate.

I'd bet most of it is correlation between SAT and LSAT scores though.

[bp shinners]

As for HYPers outperforming, I am unsure. However, I think that, in general, students are these schools are the type of applicants that would have excellent softs/stories/backgrounds already.

I think this point is dead on. The type of people who gets into Ivies are, in general, already top quality material. But this doesn't mean that going to a lower-tier school disadvantages you significantly.

This seems to be right. At the top schools, there are a lot more people from prestigious schools (Ivies/equivalent, selective liberal arts colleges, top public universities) than schools nobody has ever heard of. Causation or correlation? Impossible to tell.

There was a study published a few months ago (which I can't find to link, though Ezra Klein discussed it on his blog if you feel like digging) that analyzed the careers of people who went to different universities, analyzing the value of an Ivy League education. As I recall, the conclusion was that the ability to get accepted into an Ivy League University was worth more than the education itself; if you got into Yale but went to OU, for instance, you still made as much as a Yale grad. The authors drew from this that the qualities that got you accepted into Yale were the ones that eventually led you to succeed in your career.

Not the exact same thing, but I think that it parallels this discussion enough to be relevant. I also agree that it's more the qualities inherent in people who could get into these places than the education one receives there itself that gives them a boost in law school applications.