2012 US News Top 10 posted online Forum

[Wactawshus]

Hey there, "Retake" guy... I thought that was pretty darned funny, but just for future reference...

FYI:

LEGIT ANNOUNCEMENT:

"Retake" isn't funny anymore. Moreover, if you drop it in the Lounge (or in an applicable LSAT thread), then so be it...but stop posting it in response to legit questions in on-topic forums, e.g., choosing between two law schools. You're not funny; you're being an asshole.

Please consider this an open warning - vacations are my first reaction to future instances.

I wonder if this counts when the term is used to be an asshole only for the sake of mocking larger assholes?

Is there no merit to this?

My advice on that would be... proceed at your own risk.

What's your motivation here?

[absolutazn87]

Interesting. Thanks for the link. My dreams of seeing Berkeley plummet out of the T10 are unfulfilled...

+14

[tea_drinker]

--ImageRemoved--

[warandpeace]

I believe that it was sarcasm

I do not think that the internet has been approved for the use of sarcasm yet.

That's only because US News hasn't found a way to rank it yet.

Well played.

[Lawl Shcool]

Boalt welcomes the hate, y'all are just jealous.

[lovejopd]

Boalt welcomes the hate, y'all are just jealous.

Correct Response!
Love Boalt!

[helloperson]

I believe that it was sarcasm

I do not think that the internet has been approved for the use of sarcasm yet.

Personally, I am still waiting for the sarcasm font.

oh you mean comic sans?

[mst]

how boalt has been skating by with its skyrocketing tuition, dimming prospects, egregiously low lsats is just mind boggling... but i still might have gone there over nyu lol

[FiveSermon]

It's time to rank 11-14.

11. Northwestern
12. Cornell/Duke
14. Georgetown

[SupraVln180]

It's time to rank 11-14.

11. Northwestern
12. Cornell/Duke
14. Georgetown

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

[Lawl Shcool]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

[DoubleChecks]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

link please? i haven't seen the new data yet

thanks!

[Bumi]

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

That's a pretty long limb, given that NLJ250 placement isn't part of the USNWR rankings formula afaik.

[FiveSermon]

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

That's a pretty long limb, given that NLJ250 placement isn't part of the USNWR rankings formula afaik.

USNWR updated their formula to include employment statistics.

[mst]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

Class of 2010 is not exactly new. We're talking 3 OCI's ago with that. Not that I have hard facts to share on the new OCI either... but you cant defend the continuous flame of "OCI at Boalt this year was terrible" with nlj data reflective of 2008 when its 2011.

And people care about the LSAT (and im not saying this is warranted) because they think theres a big difference between schools with medians in the low to mid 170's (a lot of the t10) and a school that falls quite a few points below that and frequently admits mid 160's (median) and has a 25th of 163 (might have changed since I last checked). That COULD mean that up to 50% of their class is scoring 163 or 164 and below. And yeah, 2 or 3 points is a VERY debatable subject when talking about meaningful differences. But 10 point differences is a notable difference in basic abilities from my personal experiences with people, and I think all the people who jump on the low lsat train would agree with that sentiment as well. Of course they can't prove it. It's just their opinion.

[Lawl Shcool]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

Class of 2010 is not exactly new. We're talking 3 OCI's ago with that. Not that I have hard facts to share on the new OCI either... but you cant defend the continuous flame of "OCI at Boalt this year was terrible" with nlj data reflective of 2008 when its 2011.

And people care about the LSAT (and im not saying this is warranted) because they think theres a big difference between schools with medians in the low to mid 170's (a lot of the t10) and a school that falls quite a few points below that and frequently admits mid 160's (median) and has a 25th of 163 (might have changed since I last checked). That COULD mean that up to 50% of their class is scoring 163 or 164 and below. And yeah, 2 or 3 points is a VERY debatable subject when talking about meaningful differences. But 10 point differences is a notable difference in basic abilities from my personal experiences with people, and I think all the people who jump on the low lsat train would agree with that sentiment as well. Of course they can't prove it. It's just their opinion.

Let me get this straight, so people here don't like a school because they don't focus entirely on numbers in the admissions process? It's not like the LSAT is some intelligence test and scoring below X makes a person any less qualified for a job. In fact, only 1 employer (not a firm) even asked for my score at OCI. Seems like a lot of people are pissed that they got a high score on a largely meaningless test but they still weren't good enough for a school. I can see that being disheartening but get over yourself and go do something interesting with your time.

I was referring the most recent NLJ data. I understand that its from a few OCI's ago but it is still the only real data we have to work on.

[amers73]

Let me get this straight, so people here don't like a school because they don't focus entirely on numbers in the admissions process?

No I'm just mad that I got rejected

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

It's time to rank 11-14.

11. Northwestern
12. Cornell/Duke
14. Georgetown

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

Understand how the rankings work first.

[Bumi]

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

That's a pretty long limb, given that NLJ250 placement isn't part of the USNWR rankings formula afaik.

USNWR updated their formula to include employment statistics.

USNWR updated their formula to include a poll of recruiters and rebalanced the amount that they count % employed at graduation and % employed 9 months out, plus eliminated a loophole where crappy schools could pad their stats by not reporting % employed at graduation.

All of the employment stats, though, are based on any job at all, whether the job is V10 or NLJ250 or a SCOTUS clerkship or a temp job at Roy's Plumbing depot.

If I'm wrong about any of this, please link me to proof.

[DoubleChecks]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

Class of 2010 is not exactly new. We're talking 3 OCI's ago with that. Not that I have hard facts to share on the new OCI either... but you cant defend the continuous flame of "OCI at Boalt this year was terrible" with nlj data reflective of 2008 when its 2011.

And people care about the LSAT (and im not saying this is warranted) because they think theres a big difference between schools with medians in the low to mid 170's (a lot of the t10) and a school that falls quite a few points below that and frequently admits mid 160's (median) and has a 25th of 163 (might have changed since I last checked). That COULD mean that up to 50% of their class is scoring 163 or 164 and below. And yeah, 2 or 3 points is a VERY debatable subject when talking about meaningful differences. But 10 point differences is a notable difference in basic abilities from my personal experiences with people, and I think all the people who jump on the low lsat train would agree with that sentiment as well. Of course they can't prove it. It's just their opinion.

Let me get this straight, so people here don't like a school because they don't focus entirely on numbers in the admissions process? It's not like the LSAT is some intelligence test and scoring below X makes a person any less qualified for a job. In fact, only 1 employer (not a firm) even asked for my score at OCI. Seems like a lot of people are pissed that they got a high score on a largely meaningless test but they still weren't good enough for a school. I can see that being disheartening but get over yourself and go do something interesting with your time.

I was referring the most recent NLJ data. I understand that its from a few OCI's ago but it is still the only real data we have to work on.

Not to say your point was a bad one, just that mst's counter-point was much, much better lol.

[FiveSermon]

A lot of schools get hated on by TLS that doesn't have to do with their employment stats.

[Bumi]

Let me get this straight, so people here don't like a school because they don't focus entirely on numbers in the admissions process?

With the highest GPA numbers outside of HYS, I'd hesitate to say they don't focus on numbers.

[JusticeHarlan]

I'm going to go out on the limb and say Cornell is alone at 11 due to their NLJ 250 placement percentage last year. Then Northwestern/Duke at 12.

That's a pretty long limb, given that NLJ250 placement isn't part of the USNWR rankings formula afaik.

USNWR updated their formula to include employment statistics.

USNWR updated their formula to include a poll of recruiters and rebalanced the amount that they count % employed at graduation and % employed 9 months out, plus eliminated a loophole where crappy schools could pad their stats by not reporting % employed at graduation.

All of the employment stats, though, are based on any job at all, whether the job is V10 or NLJ250 or a SCOTUS clerkship or a temp job at Roy's Plumbing depot.

If I'm wrong about any of this, please link me to proof.

Did USNWR explicitly say they would do the bolded, or is that just speculation? I recall their letter being worded ambiguously, and those changes (rebalancing at graduation and 9 month out %s and eliminating the non-reporting loophole) were just some educated guess on what those specific changes would be?

[mst]

Why do people care about Boalt having a low LSAT median?

Also the employment argument is ridiculous as the new NLJ data proves.

Class of 2010 is not exactly new. We're talking 3 OCI's ago with that. Not that I have hard facts to share on the new OCI either... but you cant defend the continuous flame of "OCI at Boalt this year was terrible" with nlj data reflective of 2008 when its 2011.

And people care about the LSAT (and im not saying this is warranted) because they think theres a big difference between schools with medians in the low to mid 170's (a lot of the t10) and a school that falls quite a few points below that and frequently admits mid 160's (median) and has a 25th of 163 (might have changed since I last checked). That COULD mean that up to 50% of their class is scoring 163 or 164 and below. And yeah, 2 or 3 points is a VERY debatable subject when talking about meaningful differences. But 10 point differences is a notable difference in basic abilities from my personal experiences with people, and I think all the people who jump on the low lsat train would agree with that sentiment as well. Of course they can't prove it. It's just their opinion.

Let me get this straight, so people here don't like a school because they don't focus entirely on numbers in the admissions process? It's not like the LSAT is some intelligence test and scoring below X makes a person any less qualified for a job. In fact, only 1 employer (not a firm) even asked for my score at OCI. Seems like a lot of people are pissed that they got a high score on a largely meaningless test but they still weren't good enough for a school. I can see that being disheartening but get over yourself and go do something interesting with your time.

I was referring the most recent NLJ data. I understand that its from a few OCI's ago but it is still the only real data we have to work on.

Dude/dudette, you asked a honest question why 15 people in here half-jokingly put +1 on berkeley falling and I gave an honest, logical, well-reasoned answer that made sure to state it was all opinion and speculatory and you just go nuts and attack me personally. That makes no sense. And then you go on to bash me saying I didn't get in and that I'm just pissed and that I need to "get over myself". Personally, I love berkeley. I love its location, the universities mission, the excellent top tier faculty that competes with any other t10, the feeling I get being on that campus. I never found out whether I'd get in because that just wasn't where I wanted to go. Maybe I wouldn't have. But don't come on here bashing me for taking the five minutes of my time to answer your rant and questions with down-to-earth, serious answers.

As for the most recent nlj data, we do have better data which is what everyone from the past 2 years oci's have been reporting on these forums and the other t10's own school oci data which have been substantially higher than even the nlj data (which in the end isn't that great by itself considering the continually skyrocketing tuition at the school).

But thanks for ripping on me personally either way?

[Bumi]

USNWR updated their formula to include a poll of recruiters and rebalanced the amount that they count % employed at graduation and % employed 9 months out, plus eliminated a loophole where crappy schools could pad their stats by not reporting % employed at graduation.

Did USNWR explicitly say they would do the bolded, or is that just speculation? I recall their letter being worded ambiguously, and those changes (rebalancing at graduation and 9 month out %s and eliminating the non-reporting loophole) were just some educated guess on what those specific changes would be?

Just did some googling, and I think you're right. Either way, we'll find out tomorrow I guess.