School asks if you will accept before offering acceptance? Forum

[tlslsnlsp]

I heard some schools will do this to people on the waitlist, to make sure their yield doesn't get hurt. Could you potentially say yes, then (for whatever reason) after getting the official acceptance, decide to go to another school? I know you can't do this with ED applications as there's a contract and all, but what about these "unofficial" conversations/emails about accepting before getting off a waitlist?

[pwyoung]

It's unofficial. Unless you're signing an ED contract, you can totally do it.

[jeremysen]

It's unofficial. Unless you're signing an ED contract, you can totally do it.

wtf?

[Stringer Bell]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

[soullesswonder]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

[HopefulFish]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

no

[pwyoung]

It's unofficial. Unless you're signing an ED contract, you can totally do it.

wtf?

I mean yeah, you'll look like a dick, but there's nothing they can hold over you.

[adude]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

doesn't sound like they are offering anything with certainty if he says he will accept . . . they still have complete discretion over whether they will accept him or not. illusory implied promise = no contract. doubt they could pull out any estoppel arguments. probably would get laughed at

[JusticeHarlan]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

doesn't sound like they are offering anything with certainty if he says he will accept . . . they still have complete discretion over whether they will accept him or not. illusory implied promise = no contract. doubt they could pull out any estoppel arguments. probably would get laughed at

Also, mitigation of damages: they could probably pull another identical canidate of the wait list, and there'd be nothing to sue for.

[BeachedBrit]

There's very little wrong legally, however remember that the admissions deans all talk and other schools can certainly rescind your acceptance. There have been cases of things like this happening with ED contracts and while [ED contract =/= unofficial promise of matriculation] I still feel that it's a risk that isn't worth taking. How would you like to be rejected by both schools and possibly others over it?

Always err on the side of being ethical and cautious, it's a fairly high stakes game with a much bigger downside than upside.

[soullesswonder]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

doesn't sound like they are offering anything with certainty if he says he will accept . . . they still have complete discretion over whether they will accept him or not. illusory implied promise = no contract. doubt they could pull out any estoppel arguments. probably would get laughed at

Law school could argue that it only made an invitation to bargain and the applicant was the one who made the offer by saying, "If you accept me I will attend". That would eliminate the illusory promise. As I said, though, none of this is likely to happen.

[lisjjen]

Easy fix. Tell them that they're in your top 5 and then gush over why you would love to go there.

That's what I did with Vandy. It's not as potent of a statement, but it's less problematic.

[Snorre]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

I think maybe these two things inhabit different registers of Frown?

[2011Law]

I heard some schools will do this to people on the waitlist, to make sure their yield doesn't get hurt.

For that reason alone, unless there is a serious downside to it, I'd tell them that I was very likely to attend and then not accept, unless it was a school I was actually considering and they offered a good scholly.

They deserve it for so blatantly trying to game the rankings. They all deserve it.

[lisjjen]

They deserve it for so blatantly trying to game the rankings. They all deserve it.

Indeed they do. It would be like shoplifting from Walmart. Pretty sure that wouldn't be the end of their business.

Unfortunately, like stealing from Walmart, doing something that might have legal implications may be an imprudent choice.

[2011Law]

They deserve it for so blatantly trying to game the rankings. They all deserve it.

Indeed they do. It would be like shoplifting from Walmart. Pretty sure that wouldn't be the end of their business.

Unfortunately, like stealing from Walmart, doing something that might have legal implications may be an imprudent choice.

I don't exactly see how its anything like shoplifting, unless the before posters were wrong that saying you are very likely to attend when in fact you have no intention is actually illegal.

Also, you sound like you want to steal from Walmart. That wouldn't be so bad, but this is a forum for lawyers to be...

[jkay]

Emit positive vibrations but retain thread of escape.

[voltage88]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but YP helps the schools' rankings by keeping their acceptance rate lower?

[TommyK]

at it being considered a contract

Also, could you imagine a law school suing a student who decides to not attend? C'mon...

[2011Law]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but YP helps the schools' rankings by keeping their acceptance rate lower?

Yes, although I don't really get why either.

[voltage88]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but YP helps the schools' rankings by keeping their acceptance rate lower?

Yes, although I don't really get why either.

It's kinda silly. I think acceptance rate is only affects 2.5% of a school's ranking score on US News. I doubt an acceptance rate that's hundreths or tenths lower is gonna have a major impact on a school's ranking...

[lisjjen]

I don't exactly see how its anything like shoplifting, unless the before posters were wrong that saying you are very likely to attend when in fact you have no intention is actually illegal.

Also, you sound like you want to steal from Walmart. That wouldn't be so bad, but this is a forum for lawyers to be...

Shoplifting from Walmart is an analogue for being shrewd in dealing with law schools, because even if you do something that's slightly unethical, these top law schools are such behemoths, much like Walmart, that they really wouldn't be hurting from it. Plus, the promises of huge salaries and the number fudging is starting to get on my nerves making me feel like these "venerable" and "elite" institutions have more in common with corporate marketing than we'd like to admit.

Also, where did you get the impression that I wanted to steal from Walmart?

[romothesavior]

I think it's one of those things that's "frowned upon". Like jacking off on an airplane.

This.

Technically, depending on the way the overture was made it could constitute a verbal contract. In practice, a law school is unlikely to sue over it. It would, however, be in very poor taste, and I suspect some schools make you accept immediately in order to avoid this hypothetical situation.

doesn't sound like they are offering anything with certainty if he says he will accept . . . they still have complete discretion over whether they will accept him or not. illusory implied promise = no contract. doubt they could pull out any estoppel arguments. probably would get laughed at

Law school could argue that it only made an invitation to bargain and the applicant was the one who made the offer by saying, "If you accept me I will attend". That would eliminate the illusory promise. As I said, though, none of this is likely to happen.

[ggocat]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but YP helps the schools' rankings by keeping their acceptance rate lower?

Yes, although I don't really get why either.

Higher yield = fewer acceptances = lower acceptance rate.

It's kinda silly. I think acceptance rate is only affects 2.5% of a school's ranking score on US News. I doubt an acceptance rate that's hundreths or tenths lower is gonna have a major impact on a school's ranking...

Agreed, but when done in the aggregate, we're talking about much more than tenths of a percentage point. Schools can (and sometimes do) use the same tactic for non-waitlist applicants.

If a school can manipulate the acceptance rate 5-10 percentage points (ideally 20 points), it can be a 3-4 spot difference in the top 30 or so schools and 7-8 spot difference in the second tier.