Gay and out in the personal statement Forum

[IfByWhiskey770]

I've seen a few posts on here about LGBT applicants and whether to be out on the PS or DS. Hoping this thread doesn't devolve into a huge off-topic debate like the others. Thanks, trolls.

Background:
- I don't qualify as an URM. I'm 1/2 white, 1/2 Asian & Spanish (European Spanish.)
- I went to a pretty average California public school and started out poorly, but improved (overall GPA was 3.31... 3.9 if you only look at my last two years. My first two years were a disaster from family circumstances.)
- I work 50+ hours weekly as a BigLaw paralegal... good soft-factor experience, but didn't have much time to study for my whopping 157 LSAT score. (definitely not trying to get into a BigLaw job. I just want to pass the bar and start a career. Having a ton of experience at both small 1-2 attorney offices and big law firms, I'm pretty repulsed by BigLaw.)
- As said... I'm a LGBT applicant who volunteered as a lobbyist for EQCA, one of the organizations trying to get Prop 8 repealed.

I just wonder how substantial being out on your app is. My PS was all about my volunteer work with EQCA and how it motivated me to study law. My DS was mostly about being gay in an extremely conservative and religious household. It wasn't just an "I'm gay. Let me in," type of thing.

Some of my top picks are USF, Santa Clara, Seton Hall and Rutgers. I'm applying to each on a part-time basis (trying to hold down a part-time job. Economy sucks for law school grads, and I want to get out of school with the least debt possible. PT seemed like the smartest thing to do. My firm *luckily* agreed to reduce my hours if I get into a local law school.) I applied to each in early November, with Santa Clara as Early Action.

Anyone with previous LGBT application experience have any input on how orientation factors into admissions (factoring in my app timing and other softs)?

[lalalawya]

I have no clue about how being a LGBT can play into admissions, but just based purely on your stats and the fact that you're applying for PT, I think you have a really good chance at Seton, a good chance at both USF and Santa Clara and an OK chance at Rutgers.

EDIT: I think I just answered a question you didn't even ask....sorry, I have no idea how stating your orientation in your PS or DS would affect admissions....though I would hope it wouldn't.

[wackyjack22]

Both my PS and the DS I sent to select schools were about being gay and coming from a religious high school and insulated conservative culture. The "Why X" essays I wrote also included a desire for a gay-friendly community both in the law school and surrounding places. Did this stuff help? I'm not sure it helped me at Duke or Georgetown, but I'd venture to say it certainly didn't hurt at either of those places and might have helped me at Michigan. They probably won't let you in because you're gay, but having the ability to articulate those experiences into a meaningful PS or DS is not likely to be a bad thing.

[IfByWhiskey770]

Both my PS and the DS I sent to select schools were about being gay and coming from a religious high school and insulated conservative culture. The "Why X" essays I wrote also included a desire for a gay-friendly community both in the law school and surrounding places. Did this stuff help? I'm not sure it helped me at Duke or Georgetown, but I'd venture to say it certainly didn't hurt at either of those places and might have helped me at Michigan. They probably won't let you in because you're gay, but having the ability to articulate those experiences into a meaningful PS or DS is not likely to be a bad thing.

Helped a ton, thanks! I know Seton had a "why X" prompt, and I tried tying the gay thing specifically into their Social Justice Program. I wasn't too sure about how that would flow with them since they're Catholic.

Ugh, Catholics.

[Grizz]

Regardless of being out or not, I'd take some time to retake the LSAT to get into better schools with money.

[cortnf]

It can be a bit of a boost if the school is looking for diversity but nothing that is going to trump your numbers. It's nowhere near the boost that you get from being a real URM

[canuck]

I doubt you'll get any boost, but I'd include it just in case. I doubt gays are under-represented to any large extent in law schools.

[IfByWhiskey770]

Regardless of being out or not, I'd take some time to retake the LSAT to get into better schools with money.

Doesn't answer my question one bit.

[Grizz]

Regardless of being out or not, I'd take some time to retake the LSAT to get into better schools with money.

Doesn't answer my question one bit.

Doesn't mean it's not good advice.

[tea_drinker]

Regardless of being out or not, I'd take some time to retake the LSAT to get into better schools with money.

Doesn't answer my question one bit.

Doesn't mean it's not good advice.

I thought it did. Your gender orientation will give you an edge if you are compared to other similar-numbered applicants, but it may not put you ahead of those with higher numbers than you do. Your numbers are between 25-75 percentiles at all those schools you will apply to (according to 2008 data, I don't have the latest one), so retake the LSAT and try to push it over the 75 percentile mark.

Also, I think the lower you go down the ranking, the lesser schools will concern about your diversity and more about your stats. Good luck.

[IfByWhiskey770]

Regardless of being out or not, I'd take some time to retake the LSAT to get into better schools with money.

Doesn't answer my question one bit.

Doesn't mean it's not good advice.

I thought it did. Your gender orientation will give you an edge if you are compared to other similar-numbered applicants, but it may not put you ahead of those with higher numbers than you do. Your numbers are between 25-75 percentiles at all those schools you will apply to (according to 2008 data, I don't have the latest one), so retake the LSAT and try to push it over the 75 percentile mark.

Also, I think the lower you go down the ranking, the lesser schools will concern about your diversity and more about your stats. Good luck.

Thanks, but no - it didn't answer my question. My question was about how how being out on the app factors in, not how to boost my numbers otherwise.

And not everyone has the luxury of putting down a full-time career including travel, court, etc. to study for a standardized test. In terms of "getting into a better school with money..." By what standard exactly? I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge which straddles TT and TTT overall ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

And another thing that's more important to me than USNWR rankings is jobs. It should be painfully clear to everyone these days that where you went to school is no guarantee you'll land a job, well-paying or not. My friends are getting out of Boalt and Georgetown. The former = bartender. The latter = being outsourced at $20 an hour. I'm not saying this is representative, but it seems to be a growing trend. I'm not averse to schools with good regional reps and regional job prospects, like the ones I've applied to, and I'm not averse to a part-time program getting in on lower numbers, where I can keep my job or something like it at 1/2 time and fall back on it if the economy still sucks (I make better money now than my Georgetown friend does anyway.) Just another reason why the term "better schools" is a turnoff to me, unless you can tell me by what standard you judge that by.

Otherwise, you did answer my question: "Your gender orientation will give you an edge if you are compared to other similar-numbered applicants, but it may not put you ahead of those with higher numbers than you do."

[IAFG]

Another flame bait thread? WTF don't these trolls have families?

[Grizz]

I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

Specialty rankings do not correlate to better employment outcomes over higher-ranked schools. It may give you an advantage over schools with similar prestige in the region. Maybe.

[IfByWhiskey770]

I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

Specialty rankings do not correlate to better employment outcomes over higher-ranked schools. It may give you an advantage over schools with similar prestige in the region. Maybe.

And I'm only looking at two regions. The one I live in currently seems to love SCU and Boalt grads. In fact, most of the attorney in my firm come from either school.

Nonetheless, completely off-topic.

[kk19131]

It seems like every other day someone comes on here asking if being gay will boost his admissions...

[IfByWhiskey770]

It seems like every other day someone comes on here asking if being gay will boost his admissions...

Don't you have a tea party to go to?

[Grizz]

I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

Specialty rankings do not correlate to better employment outcomes over higher-ranked schools. It may give you an advantage over schools with similar prestige in the region. Maybe.

And I'm only looking at two regions. The one I live in currently seems to love SCU and Boalt grads. In fact, most of the attorney in my firm come from either school.

Nonetheless, completely off-topic.

Past hiring =/= present hiring.

[IfByWhiskey770]

I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

Specialty rankings do not correlate to better employment outcomes over higher-ranked schools. It may give you an advantage over schools with similar prestige in the region. Maybe.

And I'm only looking at two regions. The one I live in currently seems to love SCU and Boalt grads. In fact, most of the attorney in my firm come from either school.

Nonetheless, completely off-topic.

Past hiring =/= present hiring.

Hm... most of the associates hired in the past two years I've been there seem to have come from SCU and Boalt.

Same is true for most similar firms in the area (CA South Bay).

[20160810]

Being gay won't matter much in the admissions process, but by all means write a DS if you want to. Especially if you write well, it can't hurt.

Also, bear in mind that specialty rankings (e.g. those for intl law) don't matter at all when it comes to real world job placements. McGeorge is a festering TTT of the highest order and is in no way comparable to T20 schools.

[kazu]

In terms of "getting into a better school with money..." By what standard exactly? I'm more concerned with certain programs in these particular schools and how THEY rank rather than USNWR rankings overall (e.g. Santa Clara's specific IP program, since I work in IP currently and may want to stay in it. It also happens to be a school that looks at UGPA trends over LSAT scores, my source being a convo I had with the Dean of Admissions during a campus visit a year ago. Hell, even McGeorge which straddles TT and TTT overall ranks alongside some T20s in International Law, though that's not my thing and I wouldn't apply there for other reasons.)

And another thing that's more important to me than USNWR rankings is jobs. It should be painfully clear to everyone these days that where you went to school is no guarantee you'll land a job, well-paying or not. My friends are getting out of Boalt and Georgetown. The former = bartender. The latter = being outsourced at $20 an hour. I'm not saying this is representative, but it seems to be a growing trend. I'm not averse to schools with good regional reps and regional job prospects, like the ones I've applied to, and I'm not averse to a part-time program getting in on lower numbers, where I can keep my job or something like it at 1/2 time and fall back on it if the economy still sucks (I make better money now than my Georgetown friend does anyway.) Just another reason why the term "better schools" is a turnoff to me, unless you can tell me by what standard you judge that by.

Oh dear.

[ahduth]

Being gay won't matter much in the admissions process, but by all means write a DS if you want to. Especially if you write well, it can't hurt.

I thought this was the main thing - legitimate reason to get another piece of good writing in front of them. Beyond that, unless they really don't have any gay students yet (doubtful), shouldn't really help or hurt any.

[whymeohgodno]

Makes for a nice diversity statement but with those numbers it won't matter much.