UVA, UMich, or Northwestern? Forum

[tea_drinker]

Happy Wednesday everyone,

The subject kinda says it all. Because these three schools are somewhat similar in terms of ranking, I want to know which school you would attend if admitted to all three? Given the same amount of $.

[flyingpanda]

Happy Wednesday everyone,

The subject kinda says it all. Because these three schools are somewhat similar in terms of ranking, I want to know which school you would attend if admitted to all three? Given the same amount of $.

Need more info. Where do you want to work? What kind of evironment would you like to go to school in? What type of personality do you have? How old are you... etc....

[BruceWayne]

Want to work in Chicago? NU
Want to work in Chicago or possibly California? Michigan
Want to work in DC or the South? UVA
Want to work in NYC but like the cold? Michigan
Want to work in NYC but don't like the cold? UVA

[tingles]

I disagree with the above poster - if you want to work in DC, I'd say go to Michigan or Northwestern - you'd be competing against fewer classmates. Tons of UVA students want to go to DC, and if you've been reading their OCI threads on this site, seems like it was super tough last yr (even with the economy, it seemed more so for them since there were so many going for one city).

As for the other cities the poster listed, for similar reasons of trying to have less classmates to compete against - I'd say:
Chicago - Michigan or UVA
CA - Michigan
South - UVA
NYC - any of the 3 schools

To be upfront - I go to Michigan. Still, the great thing about Michigan is, is that since it really isn't tied to one big city, the students spread all over, so you never have the feeling that you're competing against a majority of your classmates.

[rayiner]

If you want to work in Chicago -> You don't want to work in Chicago, there are no jobs here.
If you want to work anywhere else -> UVA.

How good is your work experience?

[tea_drinker]

I grew up in a small city, but spent most of my adult life (including undergrad) in big city. So, either environment is okay with me. I would love to know what people think of these schools in terms of academic reputation and career opportunity.

[tea_drinker]

If you want to work in Chicago -> You don't want to work in Chicago, there are no jobs here.
If you want to work anywhere else -> UVA.

How good is your work experience?

I have 3+ year of work experience. But how does it relate to which law school I want to attend?

[rayiner]

If you want to work in Chicago -> You don't want to work in Chicago, there are no jobs here.
If you want to work anywhere else -> UVA.

How good is your work experience?

I have 3+ year of work experience. But how does it relate to which law school I want to attend?

Just that come OCI you don't want to be in the minority of people at NU without solid WE. Preferably something professional.

[BruceWayne]

I grew up in a small city, but spent most of my adult life (including undergrad) in big city. So, either environment is okay with me. I would love to know what people think of these schools in terms of academic reputation and career opportunity.

I'm not sure what you mean by academic reputation. In terms of reputation in the legal community, Michigan and UVA have the edge. It's not a blowout or anything but they do have the edge.

[sundance95]

Full disclosure: I'll be attending UVA this fall.

I'd say either Michigan or UVA. The cost of living in Charlottesville or Ann Arbor is far less than downtown Chicago, meaning you'll have less overall debt to deal with, even assuming your tuition is the same at all three schools. (I think this is what you meant when you said, "Given the same amount of $.")

As far as markets, if you want Chicago, Michigan can certainly take you there, as well as the other major markets. UVA can get you to DC, NY, or to a lesser extent, the West Coast. Both of these schools outperform Northwestern in clerkship placement, if that is a path you are interested in.

Really though, these schools are so different culturally that you should be able to find some preference. Do you prefer urban settings? Then NU is for you. The South? UVA. If you can't decide then visit-I certainly found them all to be very different and it helped my decision process.

FWIW, Bruce Wayne is correct; Michigan and UVA are generally regarded as within a higher 'subtier' of the T14 than NU.

[005618502]

So first off ill say that i will be going to UVA next year.

What are your numbers? Are you sure you will get into all 3? Do you have work experience? Or is this one of those "i think ill get into all 3 so i want to decide now?"

I mean with good enough numbers to be sure why not wait to see what kind of scholarships you get.
If you get none then go where you feel you will be happiest. I went with Virginia because of the QOL and hating chicago. If you had your choice your in a very good spot because all 3 have great job prospects.

Can anyone say that any one has much better job prospects then the other? I have heard great things about northwestern because everyone has prior work experience so their resume is boosted already when looking for a job. If you hAvent been out of school for 2 or more years i would cut out northwestern as you probably wouldnt fit in as well.

This is all just my biased 2 cents of course

[PDaddy]

Happy Wednesday everyone,

The subject kinda says it all. Because these three schools are somewhat similar in terms of ranking, I want to know which school you would attend if admitted to all three? Given the same amount of $.

UVA and UMich are located in college towns, whereas NU is an urban school. All three have great career prospects, but, for corporate law I would choose NU - if only by a smidge. If you want a clerkship, the other two might be better, although it is possible to get one from NU. I haven't really researched the clerkship issues. If you want to work in NY or on the east coast, pick UVA. If you want to go west or midwest, pick NU or UMich. If you want to go south, go to UVA or pull a name out of a hat. It is true that NU is biased towards candidates with work experience, but that doesn't mean you can't get in if you don't have it. Remember Suff v. Nec conditions? At NU, W.E. is a Sufficient condition for having a good shot at admission, not a Necessary one. My personal preference would be NU, but that's my preference. Do you...

[CanadianWolf]

Northwestern because of its location & #1 National Law Journal placement ranking for the top 250 law firms in the country. Otherwise Michigan if you prefer cold weather, Virginia if you prefer warmer weather. All three are equal academically but offer different school cultures & settings.
Although NU is referred to as an urban school, it also has one of the most beautiful & upscale settings in the nation. The library looks out over Lake Michigan & the most upscale dining & shopping in Chicago is within walking distance. But, if you prefer a college town & campus setting, then Michigan & Virginia are better options.

[tea_drinker]

Just that come OCI you don't want to be in the minority of people at NU without solid WE. Preferably something professional.

Good point.

Or is this one of those "i think ill get into all 3 so i want to decide now?"

Definitely not. I will be extremely happy to get into one of these fine schools.

Remember Suff v. Nec conditions? At NU, W.E. is a Sufficient condition for having a good shot at admission, not a Necessary one.

Good analogy!

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

What do you like more:

Softball

Building asthetics

or the cast of BP

[CanadianWolf]

Northwestern places a very high value on work experience after graduating college. Not certain, but I recall reading that last year's entering class had about 94% with work experience, while the remaining 6% directly from college were rumored to have very high numbers.
As you may have read, Northwestern's well known law dean resigned to become a university president in New York City. Not sure if the emphasis will change. NU law students can take graduate business courses at the Kellogg School which is currently the third or fourth top MBA school in USNews.
Northwestern law students tend to be about 2 years older than the other two law schools. NU's law school is located near the medical school so the atmosphere is different than being on an undergraduate campus.

[RVP11]

Please don't listen to 0L/1Ls and this "if you want DC, go to UVA, if you want California, go to Michigan, etc." business.

What matters when it comes to OCI are A) your grades and B) your connection to the market. Firms in DC aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into UVA than they are into Michigan or NU, Chicago firms aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into NU or Michigan than they are into UVA.

UVA is not a great place to go if you want to practice at a big firm in DC, unless you can somehow guarantee that you will both be in the top 25% of the class and a good interviewer at OGI and at least a little bit lucky.

Good grades plus decent interviewing can probably get you NYC BigLaw from any of these schools.

And you're not going to have much success in California coming from ANY of the above schools if you don't have a legitimate California (or at least west coast) tie.

The point is this decision should not be significantly influenced by the regional placement strength of these schools as perceived by people who are year(s) away from even interviewing. Seriously - how much you like/dislike the cold, like/dislike softball, or like/dislike living in a major city, are all MUCH more important in the decision among NU/UM/UVA than whatever hairs you can split when it comes to job placement.

[silly101]

Please don't listen to 0L/1Ls and this "if you want DC, go to UVA, if you want California, go to Michigan, etc." business.

What matters when it comes to OCI are A) your grades and B) your connection to the market. Firms in DC aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into UVA than they are into Michigan or NU, Chicago firms aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into NU or Michigan than they are into UVA. And you're not going to have much success in California coming from ANY of the above schools if you don't have a legitimate California (or at least west coast) tie. UVA is not a great place to go if you want to practice at a big firm in DC, unless you can somehow guarantee that you will both be in the top 25% of the class and a good interviewer at OGI and at least a little bit lucky. Good grades plus decent interviewing can probably get you NYC BigLaw from any of these schools.

The point is this decision should not be significantly influenced by the regional placement strength of these schools as perceived by people who are year(s) away from even interviewing.

what do you mean by west coast tie? some ppl say that having family there is enough...true?

also-i guess if i threw penn into the mix you would categorize it as the same?-grades/connection to market

[RVP11]

Please don't listen to 0L/1Ls and this "if you want DC, go to UVA, if you want California, go to Michigan, etc." business.

What matters when it comes to OCI are A) your grades and B) your connection to the market. Firms in DC aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into UVA than they are into Michigan or NU, Chicago firms aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into NU or Michigan than they are into UVA. And you're not going to have much success in California coming from ANY of the above schools if you don't have a legitimate California (or at least west coast) tie. UVA is not a great place to go if you want to practice at a big firm in DC, unless you can somehow guarantee that you will both be in the top 25% of the class and a good interviewer at OGI and at least a little bit lucky. Good grades plus decent interviewing can probably get you NYC BigLaw from any of these schools.

The point is this decision should not be significantly influenced by the regional placement strength of these schools as perceived by people who are year(s) away from even interviewing.

what do you mean by west coast tie? some ppl say that having family there is enough...true?

also-i guess if i threw penn into the mix you would categorize it as the same?-grades/connection to market

"Having family there" - that would depend on the family. Cousin? No. Brother/sister? Probably not. Parents or significant other? Now we're talking, but still not as good as having grown up there.

And yes, Penn would be in the same category.

[ArchRoark]

"Having family there" - that would depend on the family. Cousin? No. Brother/sister? Probably not. Parents or significant other? Now we're talking, but still not as good as having grown up there.

And yes, Penn would be in the same category.

As a clueless 0L, why do firms care about your connections to a market?

[silly101]

Please don't listen to 0L/1Ls and this "if you want DC, go to UVA, if you want California, go to Michigan, etc." business.

What matters when it comes to OCI are A) your grades and B) your connection to the market. Firms in DC aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into UVA than they are into Michigan or NU, Chicago firms aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into NU or Michigan than they are into UVA. And you're not going to have much success in California coming from ANY of the above schools if you don't have a legitimate California (or at least west coast) tie. UVA is not a great place to go if you want to practice at a big firm in DC, unless you can somehow guarantee that you will both be in the top 25% of the class and a good interviewer at OGI and at least a little bit lucky. Good grades plus decent interviewing can probably get you NYC BigLaw from any of these schools.

The point is this decision should not be significantly influenced by the regional placement strength of these schools as perceived by people who are year(s) away from even interviewing.

what do you mean by west coast tie? some ppl say that having family there is enough...true?

also-i guess if i threw penn into the mix you would categorize it as the same?-grades/connection to market

"Having family there" - that would depend on the family. Cousin? No. Brother/sister? Probably not. Parents or significant other? Now we're talking, but still not as good as having grown up there.

And yes, Penn would be in the same category.

okay yeah i grew up in cali and am going to undergrad here as well

[im_blue]

"Having family there" - that would depend on the family. Cousin? No. Brother/sister? Probably not. Parents or significant other? Now we're talking, but still not as good as having grown up there.

And yes, Penn would be in the same category.

As a clueless 0L, why do firms care about your connections to a market?

to make sure you like living in the area, need or want to stay for a long time, and won't leave for greener pastures elsewhere

[BruceWayne]

Please don't listen to 0L/1Ls and this "if you want DC, go to UVA, if you want California, go to Michigan, etc." business.

What matters when it comes to OCI are A) your grades and B) your connection to the market. Firms in DC aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into UVA than they are into Michigan or NU, Chicago firms aren't digging significantly deeper (if at all) into NU or Michigan than they are into UVA.

UVA is not a great place to go if you want to practice at a big firm in DC, unless you can somehow guarantee that you will both be in the top 25% of the class and a good interviewer at OGI and at least a little bit lucky.

Good grades plus decent interviewing can probably get you NYC BigLaw from any of these schools.

And you're not going to have much success in California coming from ANY of the above schools if you don't have a legitimate California (or at least west coast) tie.

The point is this decision should not be significantly influenced by the regional placement strength of these schools as perceived by people who are year(s) away from even interviewing. Seriously - how much you like/dislike the cold, like/dislike softball, or like/dislike living in a major city, are all MUCH more important in the decision among NU/UM/UVA than whatever hairs you can split when it comes to job placement.

If by the bolded you mean "not the best law school in the entire nation for DC" then yes. But unless you've been accepted to HYS or arguably CC UVA is about as good as it's going to get. It's not like going to Michigan or NU will give you a better shot. Numerous 3L's have told me (who've gone through OGI and cemented where they are going to work upon graduation) that although DC is tough, our alumni base there is very strong and definitely helps us. It's no different than NYU having a strong alumni base in NYC and that helping them, or Berkeley's alumni base in San Francisco helping them.

The other thing to take into account is that a lot more DC firms come to UVA's OGI than they do to NU or Michigan's OCI. That's not the end all be all but it certainly helps if the firm is coming right to your campus to interview.

[rayiner]

If by the bolded you mean "not the best law school in the entire nation for DC" then yes. But unless you've been accepted to HYS or arguably CC UVA is about as good as it's going to get. It's not like going to Michigan or NU will give you a better shot.

I've heard its very difficult to get interview slots for DC at UVA. I picked up the prominent DC office of a national firm with a #21 ranked bid at NU. I picked up another prominent DC firm with a 30s ranked bid off the waitlist.

[Grizz]

See if you get into these school. Then make this post again.