Reverse-Splitter 2011! Forum

[anniebelle330]

I saw a similar thread for the 2010 admissions cycle and thought it'd be nice if one were to made for the 2011 cycle as well. What is a reverse splitter? It's someone who has high GPA but medium to low (by TLS standards) LSAT - around > 3.8 GPA and < 164 LSAT.

I myself have a couple of questions that maybe some of you could help answer.

1) Are there any schools in the top 20 that are lenient toward reverse splitters? (Who perhaps, would weigh high GPA a bit more?)
2) Should reserve splitters consider taking the LSAT again in October?

If you're a reverse splitter, please tell us your stats, what schools are you looking at, and anything else you'd like to share.

Thanks! =D

[jdhopeful11]

What kind of UG did you attend?

And I would definitely study and take the LSAT again in October, your GPA is too valuable to let go to waste with that LSAT.

[beachbum]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.

[anniebelle330]

Thanks for the replies! UG = Washu; consider staying there for law school as well. GPA is 3.94 and LSAT is 164 (cries) BUT I did study for a month and I think re-taking it would give me maybe three or four points higher, but not much. I think it's just the type of test taker I am, unfortunately. I'm not looking for a top 10 really, just maybe somewhere in the teens or upper twenties, or trying to get a scholarship at other schools.

[crossingforHYS]

for the schools I want to go to I am with you. 3.95, 165

[crossingforHYS]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.[/quote]


not true....in last years thread people got into penn and mich with really low numbers

[beachbum]

Thanks for the replies! UG = Washu; consider staying there for law school as well. GPA is 3.94 and LSAT is 164 (cries) BUT I did study for a month and I think re-taking it would give me maybe three or four points higher, but not much. I think it's just the type of test taker I am, unfortunately. I'm not looking for a top 10 really, just maybe somewhere in the teens or upper twenties, or trying to get a scholarship at other schools.

Right on, WUSTL is a great school (they're on my list too). Fortunately, they play the rankings game pretty well- and your GPA is sky-high. They might see your credentials as a means to boost their GPA median, though I think you'll be waitlisted first.

In any case, you would do yourself a disservice by not retaking. A month of study is not very much, and I'm sure you can boost that score by at least 3 or 4 points with a few more months of study. This would put you in a great position to break the T14 and/or to pick up scholarships at lower-ranked schools (i.e. WUSTL). Good luck.

[beachbum]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.


not true....in last years thread people got into penn and mich with really low numbers

Duke: http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Michigan: http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
UCLA: http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Boalt: http://berkeley.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Penn: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

I dunno what you're seeing, but things are not looking hopeful from my point-of-view. At 164 (which is the maximum score originally allowed by the OP), there are some yellows (and even a few greens) mixed in among the reds at the top of the GPA spectrum, but there's nothing indicative of a legitimate shot at any of these schools with those numbers. I noticed that many of the green dots in this range have exceptional softs or are URMs, which obviously skews their results.

Can it be done? Sure- and it helps tremendously if you cured cancer and/or are a URM- but it's not very likely. Again, you'd be far better off retaking the LSAT and not leaving your admissions chances to an unbelievable stroke of luck.

[jdhopeful11]

Thanks for the replies! UG = Washu; consider staying there for law school as well. GPA is 3.94 and LSAT is 164 (cries) BUT I did study for a month and I think re-taking it would give me maybe three or four points higher, but not much. I think it's just the type of test taker I am, unfortunately. I'm not looking for a top 10 really, just maybe somewhere in the teens or upper twenties, or trying to get a scholarship at other schools.

You should study for at least 2 months. Saying you studied for a month like its a huge deal is a slap in the face to everyone who has studied for 5+ months like myself.

[crossingforHYS]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.


not true....in last years thread people got into penn and mich with really low numbers

Duke: http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Michigan: http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
UCLA: http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Boalt: http://berkeley.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Penn: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

I dunno what you're seeing, but things are not looking hopeful from my point-of-view. At 164 (which is the maximum score originally allowed by the OP), there are some yellows (and even a few greens) mixed in among the reds at the top of the GPA spectrum, but there's nothing indicative of a legitimate shot at any of these schools with those numbers. I noticed that many of the green dots in this range have exceptional softs or are URMs, which obviously skews their results.

Can it be done? Sure- and it helps tremendously if you cured cancer and/or are a URM- but it's not very likely. Again, you'd be far better off retaking the LSAT and not leaving your admissions chances to an unbelievable stroke of luck.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=200 on the last page, a guy got in with a 158 to upenn...I understand what your saying in terms of re-taking being the best option...but no need to be negative about a process that is rather mysterious at times...

[beachbum]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.


not true....in last years thread people got into penn and mich with really low numbers

Duke: http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Michigan: http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
UCLA: http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Boalt: http://berkeley.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Penn: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

I dunno what you're seeing, but things are not looking hopeful from my point-of-view. At 164 (which is the maximum score originally allowed by the OP), there are some yellows (and even a few greens) mixed in among the reds at the top of the GPA spectrum, but there's nothing indicative of a legitimate shot at any of these schools with those numbers. I noticed that many of the green dots in this range have exceptional softs or are URMs, which obviously skews their results.

Can it be done? Sure- and it helps tremendously if you cured cancer and/or are a URM- but it's not very likely. Again, you'd be far better off retaking the LSAT and not leaving your admissions chances to an unbelievable stroke of luck.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=200 on the last page, a guy got in with a 158 to upenn...I understand what your saying in terms of re-taking being the best option...but no need to be negative about a process that is rather mysterious at times...

Right, but that's like saying that the OP has a shot because someone got in once with a low LSAT. Yes, it happens every once in a while. But the overwhelming body of evidence points to the OP not having a good chance at most top schools with her current LSAT.

And for the record, that person (the UPenn admit) had pretty good softs: "fundraising over $4 million in DC, working for an investment bank and private equity group for 2 years, helping found a start-up company to assist NGOs, scoring a pre-law school state judicial clerkship, graduating MCL/PBK from a Top 5 school."

If the OP has comparable softs and/or is a URM, then I retract what I've said. But if that isn't the case, then the OP should definitely retake the LSAT.

[crossingforHYS]

1. It really depends on how severe the splitter is. It seems as though the LSAT is almost always given more weight than GPA, and the schools in the top 20 that have a more equal (or, at least, closer) balance between LSAT and GPA (i.e. Boalt, Duke, Vandy, UCLA, etc) will almost certainly not accept you with less than a 164. So with that said...

2) YES. Most would consider a high GPA paired with a low LSAT to be a waste of a GPA. If you want to get accepted to a top school, the LSAT is where it's at.


not true....in last years thread people got into penn and mich with really low numbers

Duke: http://duke.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Michigan: http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
UCLA: http://ucla.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Boalt: http://berkeley.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats
Penn: http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

I dunno what you're seeing, but things are not looking hopeful from my point-of-view. At 164 (which is the maximum score originally allowed by the OP), there are some yellows (and even a few greens) mixed in among the reds at the top of the GPA spectrum, but there's nothing indicative of a legitimate shot at any of these schools with those numbers. I noticed that many of the green dots in this range have exceptional softs or are URMs, which obviously skews their results.

Can it be done? Sure- and it helps tremendously if you cured cancer and/or are a URM- but it's not very likely. Again, you'd be far better off retaking the LSAT and not leaving your admissions chances to an unbelievable stroke of luck.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=200 on the last page, a guy got in with a 158 to upenn...I understand what your saying in terms of re-taking being the best option...but no need to be negative about a process that is rather mysterious at times...

Right, but that's like saying that the OP has a shot because someone got in once with a low LSAT. Yes, it happens every once in a while. But the overwhelming body of evidence points to the OP not having a good chance at most top schools with her current LSAT.

And for the record, that person (the UPenn admit) had pretty good softs: "fundraising over $4 million in DC, working for an investment bank and private equity group for 2 years, helping found a start-up company to assist NGOs, scoring a pre-law school state judicial clerkship, graduating MCL/PBK from a Top 5 school."

If the OP has comparable softs and/or is a URM, then I retract what I've said. But if that isn't the case, then the OP should definitely retake the LSAT.

agreed. Sorry to be a pain about it, I just didnt want it to be an absolute statement...or a part of me just hates hearing that a retake may be the best option...because I dont want to do it...but I will....

but once again, valid point.

[minuit]

GW is pretty reverse splitter friendly

[d34d9823]

Thanks for the replies! UG = Washu; consider staying there for law school as well. GPA is 3.94 and LSAT is 164 (cries) BUT I did study for a month and I think re-taking it would give me maybe three or four points higher, but not much. I think it's just the type of test taker I am, unfortunately. I'm not looking for a top 10 really, just maybe somewhere in the teens or upper twenties, or trying to get a scholarship at other schools.

You need to rethink your perspective on scores. 3 or 4 points is an ENORMOUS boost, akin to 0.2 points of GPA.

Also, a month is nothing. I studied for 3 months and I'm one of the more casual test takers around here. This is more like a serious study plan: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=112107

This one test is more important for your career than everything you did in college. Just think about that.

[anniebelle330]

Thanks again for the replies. I def. understand that retaking is probably my best option. I ruled this out a month ago when scores came back, but may be considering it again? Then again, I really am not aiming for anything in the T-14. In that case, would the cost/benefit analysis work out to learn towards retaking the LSAT or just spending time on applications? I'm slightly worried about balancing a full school workload with studying for the LSATs and doing applications.

Thanks for the post on GW being a good school for reverse-splitters. Do any more of these schools come to mind?

[jdhopeful11]

Thanks again for the replies. I def. understand that retaking is probably my best option. I ruled this out a month ago when scores came back, but may be considering it again? Then again, I really am not aiming for anything in the T-14. In that case, would the cost/benefit analysis work out to learn towards retaking the LSAT or just spending time on applications? I'm slightly worried about balancing a full school workload with studying for the LSATs and doing applications.

Thanks for the post on GW being a good school for reverse-splitters. Do any more of these schools come to mind?

If you care about potential scholarships you'll retake.

[d34d9823]

Thanks again for the replies. I def. understand that retaking is probably my best option. I ruled this out a month ago when scores came back, but may be considering it again? Then again, I really am not aiming for anything in the T-14. In that case, would the cost/benefit analysis work out to learn towards retaking the LSAT or just spending time on applications? I'm slightly worried about balancing a full school workload with studying for the LSATs and doing applications.

Thanks for the post on GW being a good school for reverse-splitters. Do any more of these schools come to mind?

It would be worth writing your applications in crayon if it would get you a better LSAT score.

[shoop]

Is there any love here for a "high end" reverse splitter, or will you all just think I'm an asshole? I'm 3.9/170 and finding my GPA is at or above 75% at most of the schools on my list, but my LSAT is below median or even below 25%. Obviously, my worst-case scenario is still pretty darn good, but it still sucks to feel like I'm wasting a HLS-worthy GPA.

(My plan is to retake the LSAT next February if my acceptance-to-waitlist ratio is not to my liking)

[Marionberry]

Is there any love here for a "high end" reverse splitter, or will you all just think I'm an asshole? I'm 3.9/170 and finding my GPA is at or above 75% at most of the schools on my list, but my LSAT is below median or even below 25%. Obviously, my worst-case scenario is still pretty darn good, but it still sucks to feel like I'm wasting a HLS-worthy GPA.

(My plan is to retake the LSAT next February if my acceptance-to-waitlist ratio is not to my liking)

No love here, and I think you're an asshole.

Edit: Not really, but you are in no way, shape, or form a splitter. You are a person with a lower LSAT score than they would like.

[jcunni5]

Fwiw UVA loves reverse splitters if u have 3.85+ and a 164 u could prolly get in with an early ED 165 or 166 would be better but some people were getting in 162+ I would think about it

[094320]

..

[Ragged]

Is there any love here for a "high end" reverse splitter, or will you all just think I'm an asshole? I'm 3.9/170 and finding my GPA is at or above 75% at most of the schools on my list, but my LSAT is below median or even below 25%. Obviously, my worst-case scenario is still pretty darn good, but it still sucks to feel like I'm wasting a HLS-worthy GPA.

(My plan is to retake the LSAT next February if my acceptance-to-waitlist ratio is not to my liking)

3.86, 170 here... and retaking for the third time in October.... Cheers.

[Marionberry]

Is there any love here for a "high end" reverse splitter, or will you all just think I'm an asshole? I'm 3.9/170 and finding my GPA is at or above 75% at most of the schools on my list, but my LSAT is below median or even below 25%. Obviously, my worst-case scenario is still pretty darn good, but it still sucks to feel like I'm wasting a HLS-worthy GPA.

(My plan is to retake the LSAT next February if my acceptance-to-waitlist ratio is not to my liking)

No love here, and I think you're an asshole.

Edit: Not really, but you are in no way, shape, or form a splitter. You are a person with a lower LSAT score than they would like.

I was under the impression that the label could also be school-specific. Example: I'm a splitter at YHS, but nowhere else. At what point does one define splitter in a general rather than school-specific term?

I think you're right. Maybe one could rightly say "I'm a splitter at HYS", but not really qualify as a splitter in general? I think since LSAT varies so much more than GPA according to school rank, that a regular splitter is always a regular splitter. I mean, if you have 3.0 and a 170, you're going to be a splitter at U Miami and at Cornell. Not so with GPA, so maybe the designation works differently for reverse splitters.

I think I'm just touchy because I would kill to be a 170, 3.9. And I don't want people whose nubmers I envy to skeeze all up on my bad-boy splitter image.

[mfeller2]

Damn, I thought it'd be douchey to post bitching about being a 166/4.0 reverse splitter. Feel better next to the 170/3.9 "reverse splitters"

[trudat15]

I saw a similar thread for the 2010 admissions cycle and thought it'd be nice if one were to made for the 2011 cycle as well. What is a reverse splitter? It's someone who has high GPA but medium to low (by TLS standards) LSAT - around > 3.8 GPA and < 164 LSAT.

I myself have a couple of questions that maybe some of you could help answer.

1) Are there any schools in the top 20 that are lenient toward reverse splitters? (Who perhaps, would weigh high GPA a bit more?)
2) Should reserve splitters consider taking the LSAT again in October?

If you're a reverse splitter, please tell us your stats, what schools are you looking at, and anything else you'd like to share.

Thanks! =D

RETAKE! If you can. I saw on the thread below that you dont want to, but the LSAT is very learnable, especially if you only studied for a month and got your 164. I jumped from 164-174 with 3 extra months of studying. And this is with a full time job and not too much time. Doing apps/lsat/college is doable, you will just have to have no social life for the next few months, which is worth it if you get into an awesome school or get a full ride somewhere. On any day you dont study for your lsat, work on your apps. You'll be glad you did when you get your acceptances. Your GPA is too high to waste. Even if you dont care about t14, you should still do it for scholarship purposes. From what I've read, it's a LOT harder to get $$ as a splitter than it is if you had say a 3.9/170.