Application Disclosure Information Forum

[kmart5]

With regards to the section on most LS applications citing academic withdrawals, suspensions and expulsions, I submit the following query:

My freshman year I was suspended for the last two months of first semester due to an altercation with another student. I returned second semester in good academic standing. The following year I transferred schools and have since completed my undergraduate degree.

The following is an excerpt from the University I attended my freshman year regarding record keeping of academic and integrity violations:

Record Keeping

1. All records regarding alleged violations and academic judicial procedures are confidential. They will be kept in a locked file and should not be maintained on networked servers.

2. Records will be kept by the Director of Academic Integrity, and will be destroyed three semesters after graduation or withdrawal from the University unless the sanction included dismissal or expulsion. These records will be maintained permanently by the Director of Academic Integrity.

3. Records of multiple offenses must be made available to the Academic Integrity Board.

With respect to standard question on most LS application and the aforementioned excerpt from my former college, do I need to fully disclose a 'suspension' on my applications if said college has no record of such violation?

Thx

[kalvano]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

[Bildungsroman]

You absolutely have to disclose. If you're asking whether you can get away with not disclosing, ruminate on this: how would it feel to spend 3 years and $120,000+ dollars on law school and then not be allowed to practice law? Assuming, of course, the schools don't find out that you didn't disclose and permanently shitcan you.

Disclose.

[kmart5]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

If the Director of Academic Integrity at the University 100% has no record of it then it does not exist, correct? I understand the risk involved but the facts (or lack thereof) seem to me that it is a nonexistent issue; no records= nothing that can be used against me. The WD's on my first semester transcript can be described as a voluntary withdrawal. I may be naive and trying to "get away with this" but I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

[cartercl]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

If the Director of Academic Integrity at the University 100% has no record of it then it does not exist, correct? I understand the risk involved but the facts (or lack thereof) seem to me that it is a nonexistent issue; no records= nothing that can be used against me. The WD's on my first semester transcript can be described as a voluntary withdrawal. I may be naive and trying to "get away with this" but I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

Just because she can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist... somewhere. Your choice though. And your preference to do what's easiest for you has nothing to do with your obligation to do what is right. HTH

[kalvano]

How about academic clearinghouses that retain school records and dates of attendance, etc.?

It's not worth it.

[Bildungsroman]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

If the Director of Academic Integrity at the University 100% has no record of it then it does not exist, correct? I understand the risk involved but the facts (or lack thereof) seem to me that it is a nonexistent issue; no records= nothing that can be used against me. The WD's on my first semester transcript can be described as a voluntary withdrawal. I may be naive and trying to "get away with this" but I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

You appear to be looking for someone to validate your rulebreaking. You won't find that here. There are so many things that can, and almost certainly will, go wrong in your plan. Disclose and you'll save yourself a major headache.

Also, just as an fyi for your future law school career, the excuse of "I want to break the rules because the alternative is people knowing that I have broken the rules previously" is not one likely to garner much sympathy.

[kmart5]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

If the Director of Academic Integrity at the University 100% has no record of it then it does not exist, correct? I understand the risk involved but the facts (or lack thereof) seem to me that it is a nonexistent issue; no records= nothing that can be used against me. The WD's on my first semester transcript can be described as a voluntary withdrawal. I may be naive and trying to "get away with this" but I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

You appear to be looking for someone to validate your rulebreaking. You won't find that here. There are so many things that can, and almost certainly will, go wrong in your plan. Disclose and you'll save yourself a major headache.

Also, just as an fyi for your future law school career, the excuse of "I broke the rules because the alternative was people knowing that I had broken the rules previously" is not one likely to garner much sympathy.

I was looking for validation if it is not considered to be an infraction. I agree with you, and disclosure is the answer-which, is what I was looking for.

[thecilent]

Are you absolutely, without-a-doubt, 100% sure there are no records anywhere in existence at any school or academic clearinghouse of this violation?

If you wouldn't be willing to bet $125,000 on the answer to that question being "yes", then you probably ought to disclose it.

If the Director of Academic Integrity at the University 100% has no record of it then it does not exist, correct? I understand the risk involved but the facts (or lack thereof) seem to me that it is a nonexistent issue; no records= nothing that can be used against me. The WD's on my first semester transcript can be described as a voluntary withdrawal. I may be naive and trying to "get away with this" but I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

You appear to be looking for someone to validate your rulebreaking. You won't find that here. There are so many things that can, and almost certainly will, go wrong in your plan. Disclose and you'll save yourself a major headache.

Also, just as an fyi for your future law school career, the excuse of "I broke the rules because the alternative was people knowing that I had broken the rules previously" is not one likely to garner much sympathy.

I was looking for validation if it is not considered to be an infraction. I agree with you, and disclosure is the answer-which, is what I was looking for.

I would not disclose this. Clearly says those records are being destroyed. I think people are a little too disclose-crazy itt

[thecilent]

You appear to be looking for someone to validate your rulebreaking. You won't find that here. There are so many things that can, and almost certainly will, go wrong in your plan. Disclose and you'll save yourself a major headache.

Also, just as an fyi for your future law school career, the excuse of "I want to break the rules because the alternative is people knowing that I have broken the rules previously" is not one likely to garner much sympathy.

What???

[hsprophet]

Not disclosing is basically a lie. If you are asked "have you ever..." and say no, it's a lie. If someone ever asks you to explain the withdrawl on your transcript, you'd have to lie. Just because there isn't a record doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Disclose, and it probably won't hurt you. It was a long time ago and you can explain your way out of it now. But if you don't disclose, there's always a chance it could come back to bite you in a BIG way.

[Bildungsroman]

You appear to be looking for someone to validate your rulebreaking. You won't find that here. There are so many things that can, and almost certainly will, go wrong in your plan. Disclose and you'll save yourself a major headache.

Also, just as an fyi for your future law school career, the excuse of "I broke the rules because the alternative was people knowing that I had broken the rules previously" is not one likely to garner much sympathy.

I was looking for validation if it is not considered to be an infraction. I agree with you, and disclosure is the answer-which, is what I was looking for.

I would not disclose this. Clearly says those records are being destroyed. I think people are a little too disclose-crazy itt

If a school asks whether he has ever been subject to disciplinary action at a university, and he says no, then he is lying on his application. It is unlikely that the records maintained by the Director of Academic Integrity are the only evidence that he was suspended. Lying on law schools applications is bad; it is unethical in a profession with very strict rules of ethics, and the penalty for not disclosing could be the loss of any hope of ever practicing law. Your advice is shitty and terrible.

[Jack Smirks]

I have a more serious addendum to worry about and I would prefer not to have to disclose two issues that develop a vague pattern of behavior.

If you have a more serious addendum you're disclosing that's even more reason to disclose this situation as the former may give rise to investigation into the latter. The situation described isn't actually that big of a deal as long as you disclose it.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

"I did something else worse" is not a good reason to lie on law school application.

@OP - You know you have a glaring hole in your transcript that just screams "I was booted out of school." I don't see why you're even asking this question of "you think I can get away with this?"

[esq]

I was looking for validation if it is not considered to be an infraction. I agree with you, and disclosure is the answer-which, is what I was looking for.

Of course it's an infraction, it's why you got kicked out of school! They will ask about suspensions on your app, you will have to lie about this. They will then ask about gaps in your academic history, W&M Law for example, you will then have to lie again. You can't erase the past. And if they find out that you've been hiding something, whether the law school, or the bar, or at any time in your future career, you are done.