Would Law Schools Ask to Disclose This Info??? Forum

[bmercado]

I plan on starting the application process this upcoming fall. i have yet to look at what type of information law schools ask of their applicants, but I had a legal situation that recently occurred and im afraid that it will hinder my chances at acceptances.

Situation:
So, a close "friend" of mine (ex roommate) went out to a party, got drunk, tried to drive home, and crashed his car in a ditch. At the time, i was on my UG campus studying when i get a phone call to pick him up, so i do. Long story short... He files a false claim to the insurance company claiming that his car was stolen because he couldnt afford to get it fixed. When the private investigators called, he decided to involve me in the story. He initially did this without me knowing, but he eventually told me and literally cried while asking to play along with the story. Like a good friend, i did just that, and lied to the private investigator (my mistake). He finally confessed and took me down with him. I was charged with a two felonies and a misdemeanor (fraud and lying to peace officer), because the DA thought that my "friend" and I planned this out together. I got an attorney, got a plea, did the community service, and got all my charges dropped. But, the judge forced me to undergo the book-and-release process (therefore, ive technically been arrested).

I just wanted to know how this was all going to play out in the admissions process? What type of info would I be obligated to disclose? How much detail? Any insight would be great!

[cartercl]

All of it.

Also: Don't be saying stuff like "he took me down with him." Really?

[thepaintrain]

I plan on starting the application process this upcoming fall. i have yet to look at what type of information law schools ask of their applicants, but I had a legal situation that recently occurred and im afraid that it will hinder my chances at acceptances.

Situation:
So, a close "friend" of mine (ex roommate) went out to a party, got drunk, tried to drive home, and crashed his car in a ditch. At the time, i was on my UG campus studying when i get a phone call to pick him up, so i do. Long story short... He files a false claim to the insurance company claiming that his car was stolen because he couldnt afford to get it fixed. When the private investigators called, he decided to involve me in the story. He initially did this without me knowing, but he eventually told me and literally cried while asking to play along with the story. Like a good friend, i did just that, and lied to the private investigator (my mistake). He finally confessed and took me down with him. I was charged with a two felonies and a misdemeanor (fraud and lying to peace officer), because the DA thought that my "friend" and I planned this out together. I got an attorney, got a plea, did the community service, and got all my charges dropped. But, the judge forced me to undergo the book-and-release process (therefore, ive technically been arrested).

I just wanted to know how this was all going to play out in the admissions process? What type of info would I be obligated to disclose? How much detail? Any insight would be great!

Disclose EVERYTHING. Explain the situation and don't make excuses. People have done way worse and been accepted at great schools.

[thecilent]

If everything was dismissed, you won't have to report it to the schools that ask for only convictions. For the schools that ask for everything (being arrested), you will have to disclose. Read the apps

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Issue spotting test for 0L's - All narrative aside, OP willfully committed felony insurance fraud. Which can be both a state and federal criminal offense.

Yeah, law school is not going to like that. State Bar is not going to like that. Both are going to want to know an awful lot about that. Both of them also are not bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt" - they care about the underlying conduct, not what legal gymnastic you pulled off (here, impressive ones). This is a integrity felony.

Get an attorney that specializes in character and fitness. Even if you find a law school that doesn't want to know about ANY of charges, arrests or deferred prosecution/whatever this was (you plead but they were dropped), the bar absolutely will and this is the sort of thing that can and will keep you from being a lawyer.

Get an expert that practices these issues in your state. Period.

[bmercado]

Also: Don't be saying stuff like "he took me down with him." Really?

I guess im still angry about the whole situation. But it was my own fault, ill admit it. I should have plead the 5th... haha

[bmercado]

Issue spotting test for 0L's - All narrative aside, OP willfully committed felony insurance fraud. Which can be both a state and federal criminal offense.

Yeah, law school is not going to like that. State Bar is not going to like that. Both are going to want to know an awful lot about that. Both of them also are not bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt" - they care about the underlying conduct, not what legal gymnastic you pulled off (here, impressive ones). This is a integrity felony.

Get an attorney that specializes in character and fitness. Even if you find a law school that doesn't want to know about ANY of charges, arrests or deferred prosecution/whatever this was (you plead but they were dropped), the bar absolutely will and this is the sort of thing that can and will keep you from being a lawyer.

Get an expert that practices these issues in your state. Period.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the whole "integrity felony." That is something that I considered as well, regardless of the fact that the charges were dismissed. But I have absolutely NO previous arrest or criminal record and my academic and volunteer record speaks for itself. I believe that using this situation to jump to a conclusion in which my integrity is questioned would be a premature judgment... just my opinion.

[MrKappus]

Issue spotting test for 0L's - All narrative aside, OP willfully committed felony insurance fraud. Which can be both a state and federal criminal offense.

Yeah, law school is not going to like that. State Bar is not going to like that. Both are going to want to know an awful lot about that. Both of them also are not bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt" - they care about the underlying conduct, not what legal gymnastic you pulled off (here, impressive ones). This is a integrity felony.

Get an attorney that specializes in character and fitness. Even if you find a law school that doesn't want to know about ANY of charges, arrests or deferred prosecution/whatever this was (you plead but they were dropped), the bar absolutely will and this is the sort of thing that can and will keep you from being a lawyer.

Get an expert that practices these issues in your state. Period.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the whole "integrity felony." That is something that I considered as well, regardless of the fact that the charges were dismissed. But I have absolutely NO previous arrest or criminal record and my academic and volunteer record speaks for itself. I believe that using this situation to jump to a conclusion in which my integrity is questioned would be a premature judgment... just my opinion.

The charges were dismissed, but you still had to do community service?? Aim for schools that only ask about convictions, I guess. Otherwise, just cop to it all, acknowledge your mistakes, own them, and roll the dice. Your law school dream's not over. Good luck.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Issue spotting test for 0L's - All narrative aside, OP willfully committed felony insurance fraud. Which can be both a state and federal criminal offense.

Yeah, law school is not going to like that. State Bar is not going to like that. Both are going to want to know an awful lot about that. Both of them also are not bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt" - they care about the underlying conduct, not what legal gymnastic you pulled off (here, impressive ones). This is a integrity felony.

Get an attorney that specializes in character and fitness. Even if you find a law school that doesn't want to know about ANY of charges, arrests or deferred prosecution/whatever this was (you plead but they were dropped), the bar absolutely will and this is the sort of thing that can and will keep you from being a lawyer.

Get an expert that practices these issues in your state. Period.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the whole "integrity felony." That is something that I considered as well, regardless of the fact that the charges were dismissed. But I have absolutely NO previous arrest or criminal record and my academic and volunteer record speaks for itself. I believe that using this situation to jump to a conclusion in which my integrity is questioned would be a premature judgment... just my opinion.

Validation of being a good person otherwise is certainly better than being a career criminal. But that's not the relevant question i.e. can this cause me real problems?

Yes, it can. If you were a lawyer and you did this, you would either be suspended for a very long time or disbarred regardless of your prior good conduct. Again, find an attorney that practices C&F in the state where you want to be admitted.

[bmercado]

...find an attorney that practices C&F in the state where you want to be admitted.

What do these types of attorneys do? how would an attorney that practices c&f help me in my situation?

[CanadianWolf]

You have received great advice in this thread. But your story may be seen as yet another lie. Your chances of bar admission or certification are well below average, in my opinion. Have you thought about getting an MBA?

[northwood]

disclose it all, and start researching states where other people in similar situtations have been allowed to sit for the bar. Talk to an attorney who knows about hte c and f requirements in the state(s) you are interested, and tell him/ her your story. Leave out the part about him dragging you down. You choose to go along with the plan, and saying otherwsie can be percieved as being immature, or not totally honest about it.

good luck, keep us posted

[ScaredWorkedBored]

...find an attorney that practices C&F in the state where you want to be admitted.

What do these types of attorneys do?

They advise people on how to placate a state bar on ethical issues so that one gets/keeps their license to practice law. They also will be familiar with how the supreme court in that state tends to treat reviews of bar examiner decisions and what they like/don't like.

how would an attorney that practices c&f help me in my situation?

Normally professional advice before making a $150,000 decision is helpful.

[MoS]

I don't know how good the "aim for schools that only require you to disclose convictions" advice is. You will still have to meet the C&F requirements for the Bar. Paying all that money for a JD you won't get to use, at least in the traditional sense, doesn't make much sense. I would say the people recommending you getting advice or researching State Bar associations that would admit you would be your first step, then finding schools that do well in those state would be the second step, assuming you still want to practice in the states that would allow it (which may be all 50 for all I know).

[djjf39]

Normally professional advice before making a $150,000 decision is helpful.

This, and I actually know of a person being disbarred in CO for insurance fraud.

OP, I would also consider taking a couple years off if you can manage, because law schools will be more willing to admit you with this issue if substantial time has passed; although, any amount of time will not help you with the state bar review process.

[bmercado]

You have received great advice in this thread. But your story may be seen as yet another lie. Your chances of bar admission or certification are well below average, in my opinion. Have you thought about getting an MBA?

My hopes were to get a dual degree in whatever school i get into JD/MBA... I didn't know that my situation was serious enough to where I would have to consider a different career path... Is there anything I can do to ameliorate or mitigate the situation so that my chances are better, without consulting an attorney???

[bmercado]

Normally professional advice before making a $150,000 decision is helpful.

Agreed.

This, and I actually know of a person being disbarred in CO for insurance fraud.

Did they do this AFTER they were admitted to the bar?? My situation happened in '09.

OP, I would also consider taking a couple years off if you can manage, because law schools will be more willing to admit you with this issue if substantial time has passed; although, any amount of time will not help you with the state bar review process.

i am more concerned with being admitted to the bar, rather than being accepted to individual schools. Im considering asking for advice from the dean of admissions at the law school at my UG. Good idea? Also, my boss is a corporate attorney and I was going to ask her to help me strategically write out the explanation for my situation on law schools apps.. Im dont know how to take all this in, ive worked hard in UG and Im studying hard for the LSAT... Such a buzz kill knowing that trying to help my friend could have ruined my life.. Maybe im just be dramatic...

[bmercado]

Does anybody know of any instances where somebody was admitted to the bar having done worse that I did??

[TommyK]

You have received great advice in this thread. But your story may be seen as yet another lie. Your chances of bar admission or certification are well below average, in my opinion. Have you thought about getting an MBA?

My hopes were to get a dual degree in whatever school i get into JD/MBA... I didn't know that my situation was serious enough to where I would have to consider a different career path... Is there anything I can do to ameliorate or mitigate the situation so that my chances are better, without consulting an attorney???

Dude, just consult an attorney. For somebody who wants to be a lawyer, you're oddly evasive about consulting one. Why would you even consider $100k+ on something that would be difficult to utilize?

[ViIIager]

Also, my boss is a corporate attorney and I was going to ask her to help me strategically write out the explanation for my situation on law schools apps..

Damn, if my boss found out an employee had had committed fraud in the past, they'd be canned instantly (though I'm sure it'd be through formalized, legal processes of "GTFO for subpar performance"). I'd never bring that up at work.

[bmercado]

Also, my boss is a corporate attorney and I was going to ask her to help me strategically write out the explanation for my situation on law schools apps..

Damn, if my boss found out an employee had had committed fraud in the past, they'd be canned instantly (though I'm sure it'd be through formalized, legal processes of "GTFO for subpar performance"). I'd never bring that up at work.

LOL good point. Im just desperate and trying to explore any possibility right now. Thanks for the response though

[bmercado]

You have received great advice in this thread. But your story may be seen as yet another lie. Your chances of bar admission or certification are well below average, in my opinion. Have you thought about getting an MBA?

My hopes were to get a dual degree in whatever school i get into JD/MBA... I didn't know that my situation was serious enough to where I would have to consider a different career path... Is there anything I can do to ameliorate or mitigate the situation so that my chances are better, without consulting an attorney???

Dude, just consult an attorney. For somebody who wants to be a lawyer, you're oddly evasive about consulting one. Why would you even consider $100k+ on something that would be difficult to utilize?

Im not being evasive, im just worried about hearing the worst possible scenario, "you're effed." But youre right I should consult a professional who has more knowledge about this. Thanks

[ShuckingNotJiving]

The charges were dismissed, but you still had to do community service?? Aim for schools that only ask about convictions, I guess. Otherwise, just cop to it all, acknowledge your mistakes, own them, and roll the dice. Your law school dream's not over. Good luck.

I'm confused about this too. Aren't you only required to do community service if you're convicted of a crime? And if the charges are dropped, doesn't that mean that you weren't convicted?

I don't think you should worry too much about your admission to the bar just yet, considering you haven't even gotten in to law school. I also I don't think you should place too much weight on others who may have had "worse" records who were still admitted. Everyone's situation is different. Just disclose, as others in this thread have said. When you do, I wouldn't approach it in the manner you approached this posting. Cut out the excuses. Cut out the irrelevant I'm-a-modern-day-martyr details (EG, "I was on my UG campus studying"), and just explain what happened as concisely and honestly as possible.

[TommyK]

You have received great advice in this thread. But your story may be seen as yet another lie. Your chances of bar admission or certification are well below average, in my opinion. Have you thought about getting an MBA?

My hopes were to get a dual degree in whatever school i get into JD/MBA... I didn't know that my situation was serious enough to where I would have to consider a different career path... Is there anything I can do to ameliorate or mitigate the situation so that my chances are better, without consulting an attorney???

Dude, just consult an attorney. For somebody who wants to be a lawyer, you're oddly evasive about consulting one. Why would you even consider $100k+ on something that would be difficult to utilize?

Im not being evasive, im just worried about hearing the worst possible scenario, "you're effed." But youre right I should consult a professional who has more knowledge about this. Thanks

I would rather hear "you're fucked" now, than hear it 4 years from now when I'm trying to get admitted to the bar. I imagine you'll be fine, but I would pay to find up front before dropping enough for a mortgage.

[bmercado]

The charges were dismissed, but you still had to do community service?? Aim for schools that only ask about convictions, I guess. Otherwise, just cop to it all, acknowledge your mistakes, own them, and roll the dice. Your law school dream's not over. Good luck.

I'm confused about this too. Aren't you only required to do community service if you're convicted of a crime? And if the charges are dropped, doesn't that mean that you weren't convicted?

I don't think you should worry too much about your admission to the bar just yet, considering you haven't even gotten in to law school. I also I don't think you should place too much weight on others who may have had "worse" records who were still admitted. Everyone's situation is different. Just disclose, as others in this thread have said. When you do, I wouldn't approach it in the manner you approached this posting. Cut out the excuses. Cut out the irrelevant I'm-a-modern-day-martyr details (EG, "I was on my UG campus studying"), and just explain what happened as concisely and honestly as possible.

I didnt mean for my post to sound as if im a "modern day martyr," i just wanted to give details about what was going on. During the actual admissions process I plan on being very straight forward.

I had to do community service as part of the plea. I was never convicted of anything, all of my charges were dropped because I satisfied the conditions of the plea agreement. The only thing im questioning is whether the fact that I went through the book-and-release process will cause problems.