3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

[akham77]

Hey guys, do you think I have a realistic shot at Upenn ED? What sorts of schools do you think would be realistic shots RD with these sorts of numbers? Please advise.

Thanks!

[Pearalegal]

No, I don't think you do. You're looking at T20s as good targets.

[akham77]

Bummer. Paralegal work experience abroad. Would this be of any help?

[Pearalegal]

Nope.

[09042014]

You better apply to Cornell and hope they don't figure out how to raise their LSAT median in the next year.

Can you retake and get a better score. You are on the cusp of some great schools.

[thechee]

Retake, boost your score up to a 170, and you're almost certainly in.

[sumus romani]

Bummer. Paralegal work experience abroad. Would this be of any help?

No, that is pretty normal applicant material. The problem is that you are a ways below median in both numbers for Penn. You are, I would guess, around the 30th percentile in both numbers.

Try Cornell. You are at their median for LSAT, and I'm not sure about gpa.

[akham77]

Well, went into the exam with a couple months prep (course), but might benefit with more time and PTs. Obviously no guarantees of improvement though so not fully confident that I can raise the score.

[daesonesb]

You should shoot for GWU---Cornell range.

Northwestern might be a good reach if you aren't worried about gambling away a 100 dollar app fee.

[akham77]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

[akham77]

Truly unbelievable, the difference between the 167 and a 170 was a matter of 3 measly questions.

[daesonesb]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Your LSAT isn't quite high enough to be a shoe in at Northwestern. Lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a consider, which means it's truly a toss up numbers-wise.

After 165, those extra questions make a HUGE difference.

[sumus romani]

Numbers-based admissions are kind of crazy sometimes. With GPA, there are far more absurd examples (at least everyone takes an equivalent test for the LSAT). With regard to the LSAT, it is just assumed by top law school adcoms now-a-days that if you could have done better, you would have. If you really are serious about law school, you start to get serious about the LSAT over a year out, etc, and take multiple times if need be.

Find the median GPA for Cornell, and if you are near it, hit that school hard.

[09042014]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Your LSAT isn't quite high enough to be a shoe in at Northwestern. Lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a consider, which means it's truly a toss up numbers-wise.

After 165, those extra questions make a HUGE difference.

OP is below both medians. That makes NU a huge longshot.

[nealric]

Financial aid isn't an admissions criteria in law school because everyone just takes out loans anyways- doesn't cost the school a thing.

[reverendt]

Truly unbelievable, the difference between the 167 and a 170 was a matter of 3 measly questions.

Wait till you see how little the difference between an A and a B on a law school exam can be....

[sumus romani]

Financial aid isn't an admissions criteria in law school because everyone just takes out loans anyways- doesn't cost the school a thing.

This isn't quite right. Some schools have a question on the form about whether you are willing to pay sticker. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the question, but I recall it on quite a few apps within the T14. The question is on there for several reasons, and someone who refuses to apply for aid indeed does get a slight admissions advantage.

Also, I recall a thread from some idiot who asked the school if he could apply for aid, even though he said he would forgo it on his ap, and the school

[Pearalegal]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.

[sumus romani]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.

I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).

[Pearalegal]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.

I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).

I should have rephrased. Its doable, but its not something OP should consider a sure thing.

[akham77]

Pearalegal, thank you for your help, but don't be an asshole man. I'm clearly not trying to flaunt my "luck" to a bunch of people I don't know on a blog. I'm merely pointing out what I figured may or may not be a factor in admissions, financial aid or the lack of the need for it. As for the application fee, this was simply to clarify that yes indeed I am willing to throw out as many apps as possible to net the best school possible. Again, thanks for the attention to the post, but don't perceive or portray my comments in a falsely arrogant light. Thanks.

[Pearalegal]

Pearalegal, thank you for your help, but don't be an asshole man. I'm clearly not trying to flaunt my "luck" to a bunch of people I don't know on a blog. I'm merely pointing out what I figured may or may not be a factor in admissions, financial aid or the lack of the need for it. As for the application fee, this was simply to clarify that yes indeed I am willing to throw out as many apps as possible to net the best school possible. Again, thanks for the attention to the post, but don't perceive or portray my comments in a falsely arrogant light. Thanks.

Then apologies. I took your tone a different way then you obviously meant it, and because financial need or ivy league undergrad isn't a factor in admissions which is all you were asking about, I didn't read your comments the right way. Generally whenever I read a comment about economic values that is phrased, "several hundred dollars is a non-issue," I automatically roll my eyes.

Good luck with everything, we have pretty similar numbers so I understand that you're in an odd in-between position.

[akham77]

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.

I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).

I should have rephrased. Its doable, but its not something OP should consider a sure thing.

And agreed Pearalegal, based on my precarious numbers, I suppose none of the T15 is a sure thing. I just wanted to get a sense for any opinions out there on any wiggle room that might exist in this whole admissions process. My numbers are in the running for most of these schools but seemingly not competitive when taken together for any school other than Cornell. This is bizarre.

[Pearalegal]

And agreed Pearalegal, based on my precarious numbers, I suppose none of the T15 is a sure thing. I just wanted to get a sense for any opinions out there on any wiggle room that might exist in this whole admissions process. My numbers are in the running for most of these schools but seemingly not competitive when taken together for any school other than Cornell. This is bizarre.

Don't look at ranges, only medians. Unfortunately you get a much more realistic view that way.

[sumus romani]

The more I look into this, the more I see room for admit. OP is exactly at both medians for Cornell (3.67 and 167). Perhaps the OP is a flame, given the identity of numbers. But if not, then if OP is willing to travel to Cornell before application, pay sticker, etc., then this seems like a great shot at admit. The ivy degree helps just a sliver too.