Five W Freakout Forum

[X_Soda]

I have a 3.4 GPA and the potential to get an LSAT of around 170. I am fine with this, because apparently it puts me within reach of several New York schools I am deeply considering. However, I just read something that states that the LSAC counts Withdrawls from classes as Fs. I have FIVE withdrawls on my transcript. The changing of those from null grades to Fs would absolutely destroy me and likely put me out of reach of any T100 school in New York. So, two questions:

1) Is it really true that Ws become Fs after LSAC?

2) If it is, how can I go about eliminating these Ws from my transcript? Three of them are for absurdly easy classes that I would have gotten an A in anyway and had to drop for personal reasons. The other two are for more challenging classes that I eventually retook and got an A and B in.

[kalvano]

It depends. You can't eliminate them. Period.

But, they don't negatively impact your GPA unless they are punitive W's. My school noted them as "WF" (withdraw-failing), and those are what kill you. A regular W does not.

[Kilpatrick]

Withdrawals only count against you if your school counted them as punitive. My schools did not so I don't really know what a punitive withdrawal would be. I assume missing a deadline or something. So, no need for a freakout yet.

[jayn3]

2)Three of them are for absurdly easy classes that I would have gotten an A in anyway and had to drop for personal reasons. The other two are for more challenging classes that I eventually retook and got an A and B in.

is this something you can explain in an addendum?

[BriaTharen]

Withdrawals only count against you if your school counted them as punitive. My schools did not so I don't really know what a punitive withdrawal would be. I assume missing a deadline or something. So, no need for a freakout yet.

TCR

EDIT: But also keep in mind that even if these W's don't hurt your GPA, they can hurt you in terms of demonstrating maturity to LS. Many LS see more than 1 or 2 W's as a lack of commitment (especially if you dropped easy classes without giving a serious addendum as to why).

[X_Soda]

Well, my transcript only displays "W"s and not "WF"s or anything like that, so if I submit that to LSAC is it safe to assume that the Ws are non-punitive, or should I investigate this with my university first? All of the Ws I received were for classes I dropped about 3 or 4 weeks into the semester. If I had dropped a class in the first week or so, I don't think I would have received a W. But everything was definitely well before the midterm, so is it safe to assume these are non-punitive Ws?

[kalvano]

Fairly safe, but it doesn't matter whether they are or not. They are on your transcipt and so will be seen and counted by LSAC.

If they are punitive, you can't do anything about it.

[X_Soda]

You don't think I might be able to communicate with my university to shift their status to non-punitive if they are currently punitive? I mean, it seems insane if a 3.4 and a chance at something like Fordham could be demoted to a 2.9 and difficulty entering any T100 NYC school just because I misjudged the value of dropping some easy classes...

Another thing: let's say that the Ws are non-punitive. Do they carry any weight at all in this case, or will my GPA remain unaltered, all else equal?

[kalvano]

That's between you and your UG, though I highly doubt it.

If they are non-punitive, then they mean nothing.

[amputatedbrain]

The easy answer here is call your UG tomorrow and ask if they are punitive or not.

[autarkh]

If they're non-punitive, they'll have absolutely no effect on your GPA. At most, they'll be a mildly negative soft factor. If they were early in your undergrad and do not form a consistent pattern, they're pretty close to irrelevant. Focus on meeting your LSAT potential.

[BriaTharen]

You don't think I might be able to communicate with my university to shift their status to non-punitive if they are currently punitive? I mean, it seems insane if a 3.4 and a chance at something like Fordham could be demoted to a 2.9 and difficulty entering any T100 NYC school just because I misjudged the value of dropping some easy classes...

Another thing: let's say that the Ws are non-punitive. Do they carry any weight at all in this case, or will my GPA remain unaltered, all else equal?

If they are non-punitive you have nothing to worry about. If they are punitive, you are going to have a very very difficult time convincing your university to change them. I highly doubt that it is even possible (it is probably likely that the LSAC has a record of universities and how their W's count). While your university certainly wants their students to exceed, if they change the policy for you, they have to change it for everyone.

Back on the maturity note (what others have previously called the negative softs). You have 5 W's. Even if the W's are non-punitive, that is a lot. Most law applicants have one or two, and many none at all- simply because LS do not look favorably on multiple W's, especially if they are late or routine in your college career. LS see it absolutely as a lack of commitment, and LS is a huge commitment. The only thing you can do now is work on your LSAT. A good LSAT can combat that negative impact of the W's.

[missvik218]

The easy answer here is call your UG tomorrow and ask if they are punitive or not.

This. You're asking the wrong people here.

[HazelEyes]

Sorry to be blunt, but 5 withdrawals is kind of a big deal. In college they always warned us about the evils of having even one withdrawal.

[kalvano]

Depends on the reason for the withdrawl.

[rayiner]

Sorry to be blunt, but 5 withdrawals is kind of a big deal. In college they always warned us about the evils of having even one withdrawal.

LOL no. Your LSAC GPA is all that schools care about.

[jaxangler]

I had way more than 5 withdrawals, didn't affect my GPA or my cycle at all. There's no point in freaking out over what you can't change now.

[Robert398]

Here you go: --LinkRemoved--


Just input your school and you'll get the whole list of how they calculate each mark.

[X_Soda]

THANK YOU, MAN!! That has INTENSELY assuaged my Five W Fears. Calling my university tomorrow just to make double sure everything is good, but things look good based on that information. Now to move onto freaking out about logic games.

[Kilpatrick]

Luckily for you logic games can also be overcome fairly easily.

[dextermorgan]

Sorry to be blunt, but 5 withdrawals is kind of a big deal. In college they always warned us about the evils of having even one withdrawal.

I have 5 W's and I did fine.

[trialjunky]

I had way more than 5 withdrawals, didn't affect my GPA or my cycle at all. There's no point in freaking out over what you can't change now.

^^ This

[bostonlawchick]

Here you go: --LinkRemoved--


Just input your school and you'll get the whole list of how they calculate each mark.

thanks so much for posting this!!! I had a WF on my transcript from community college a million years ago, and it says that both LSAC and my school count it as nonpunitive! this is like a miracle for my gpa I have to keep going back and looking at it to make sure I read it right...

[Robert398]

THANK YOU, MAN!! That has INTENSELY assuaged my Five W Fears. Calling my university tomorrow just to make double sure everything is good, but things look good based on that information. Now to move onto freaking out about logic games.

You're welcome. I wish more people were aware of that link as this question comes up quite often.

[Player21]

Well, I have one WU which counts for .0. But, I only had one so my school threw it out although it's still on my transcript. Will LSAC still count it?