2.45(UGPA)/155(LSAT) [!!!URGENT ADVICE REQUIRED!!!] Forum

[thecountofmc]

The situation:
(1) I have taken the LSAT 3 times already [155 is my highest]
(2) It has been exactly 1 year since I have graduated from University. I took the year off in order to take over family complications (multiple family members requiring medical attention, etc...)
(3) I know I CAN NOT improve my UGPA since it is now set in stone... I know... it's low
(4) Accepted by cooley law school (3 week commitment deposit due soon!!!)

The choices:
(1) Retake the LSAT a FOURTH time? (This means taking another year off)
(2) Confirm acceptance from cooley law school? (Either gradaute there or transfer after L1)
(3) Wait for responses from T3 law schools I applied to? (3 no responses, 1 wait-list)

My thoughts:
***Currently I am thinking of going to law school this year Sept 2010... no matter what. I HIGHLY doubt my LSAT will go any higher if I study another year (let's be realistic here... I have taken it 3 times already INCLUDING prep course). My mind in set on accepting Cooley and hope to transfer after a year... but plans may change situation depending (a.k.a. receive T3 acceptances).***
I know the general advice is for people to retake the LSAT and get a higher score, but not everyone can be so academically gifted I also know I have given at least 90% of effort studying, so even if my score WAS to go up, it'd go to either 158 or 160 MAX.

I have considered my options VERY THOROUGHLY and read through MANY threads created by people in similar situations as myself... but please, any advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated If you think the current path I am heading toward is good, please state so as well.

thecountofmc

[joemoviebuff]

0L here. Given the choices you've listed, I'd take another year off and take it a fourth time (if you can, I thought it was 3 times in 2 years max).

Everything I hear says that the LSAT is nothing compared to the final exams you'll take in law school. If you can't study and master the LSAT, how much worse is it gonna be during 1L? You won't be doing yourself any favors plunking down 30 grand at Cooley only to flunk out after one or two semesters. As people on here will tell you, never go to a school planning to transfer or that you won't be happy graduating from.

You can wait for responses from the TTT's, but again, nobody on here will tell you that paying sticker for them is a good idea with their employment prospects.

[Mr. Pablo]

Walk away from this for a couple of years. Really. You will be better off. I know some people graduating from schools like Cooley. They are all fucked. Fucked, really, really fucked. 150k in debt with no job. No legal organization will hire them, everyone else thinks they are over-qualified. No job and 6-figure debt fucked. Walk away, get a job for a bit, retake the LSAT, and try another time.

/I'm not trying to be a dick.

[Gamecubesupreme]

I don't really have much to say in terms of advice...but I must admit this thread is a breath of fresh air after the litany of topics asking for help in deciding between Harvard or Yale.

Sorry I couldn't be of much help though : (

[AngryAvocado]

Walk away from this for a couple of years. Really. You will be better off. I know some people graduating from schools like Cooley. They are all fucked. Fucked, really, really fucked. 150k in debt with no job. No legal organization will hire them, everyone else thinks they are over-qualified. No job and 6-figure debt fucked. Walk away, get a job for a bit, retake the LSAT, and try another time.

/I'm not trying to be a dick.

This. Also, don't make the titles of your threads look like email spam from Kenya.

[A'nold]

Well, did you apply to any of the lowest ranked state schools, like the University of South Dakota or anything? URM? There are some very low ranked schools out there that at least don't carry the Cooley stigma. I don't really know what to tell you. It seems like you really will have to wait it out b/c your numbers might actually be too low for any school other than Cooley.

[JOThompson]

Accumulate some work experience. Your GPA matters less with the distance of time. Unfortunately, it's still tough to mitigate a 2.45. Study again for the LSAT, re-evaulate your test-taking strategy. If you see a major score increase (think upper 160s or low 170s), you will have decent options but you'll need to be prepared for an uphill cycle.

[icydash]

Honestly, I would take 3-4 years off and work.

Gain some distance between you and that GPA, and maybe try to do something really amazing and unique, like teach kids in Kenya or intern for a senator. A truly awesome soft will help you, and the time off will distance you from your GPA ... it will also (hopefully) negate your first or second LSAT attempt (I think they're only kept on file for 5 years...so if you can work for 4 years, hopefully your first or second attempt will be struck from your record). Also use that time to really study and get your LSAT up to the 160-170 range (which you can definitely do in this amount of time). You'll also be saving money this whole time.

Then the next time you apply, you'll have a great LSAT, a great soft, work experience, money in the bank so loans aren't so scary, and distance between you and your GPA.

[You Gotta Have Faith]

If you absolutely must go to law school immediately, then try to pick one that doesn't cost an obscene amount of money. And see if any of the state ones will give you in-state tuition after the first year (many of them do this, but USNWR doesn't make note of this... this requires a bit of research but not much).

Also, with that LSAT, I can assure you there are T4s other than Cooley that will take you, and perhaps even a few schools ranked higher than that, who knows? It's low for T1, but not for T3 and T4 (and even a handful of T2s).

I really do think that if you distance yourself from that GPA like a number of people have suggested, it would probably help you crack into the T2s. If you were to do TfA or the Peace Corps, or even AmeriCorps... a number of these would help you distance yourself. Just working somewhere would help to do that too. Remember that law school will always be there.

[Jones, Dow]

the thing you should tell us is what kind of work you want to do. then I think you'll get better advice.

[atlantalaw]

i wouldn't recommend for anyone to go to cooley at full price. the only scenario i think that MIGHT be worth it is if you have a close family member that guaranteed you a legal job (in writing) and you just need a degree from somewhere. even then though, i don't think i would recommend full price for cooley.

op, are you 100% sure that you want to be a lawyer? are you willing to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars to find out and then possibly (a very high possibility) not even get a lawyer job? or have to drop out of cooley with all that debt that you can't declare bankrupcy on? look at cooley's attrition rate; it is kind of atrocious. i think cooley's motto is accept them all and see who can fight it out hard enough to stay. many don't make it to graduation day.

where do you want to practice law? legal jobs tend to be very centralized around the state/area where you went to law school.

have you researched the current legal market? to sum it up, it is a shitstorm. the legal market is oversaturated, and for the lucky ones who can get jobs, becoming a lawyer is not going to guarantee a high paying job. there are lawyer jobs that start out $30,000, and i am not saying this salary happens as a rarity. i am hoping you already researched this or at least research the state of the legal market IN DEPTH before depositing money anywhere. don't trust the employment info in the cooley packet or any other school's packet, since they lie lie lie in there. what good is going to law school if you can't get a law job? i am not talking doom and gloom just to scare you or be a naysayer, and i hope you look up everything i said to find out for youself.

[Danteshek]

I agree that OP should be able to get into a better school than Cooley, even with that GPA. I also think that if he can get a job (who knows ITE) then he should work for a few years before law school. He probably does not have the emotional maturity at this juncture to do really well in law school.

[engineer]

OP, I was in a position similar to yours and thought I could transfer out after one year. I went in kind of cocky because of my background; my UGPA/LSAT were 3.14/161, but I had some real-world experience that I don't think many have. Long story short, I got in, fought my hardest, and ended up median. That's how it works. The last thing you want to to is graduate median at Cooley. As others have said, you won't get a single legal job, and you'll be overqualified for anything else.

Here's what I would do if I had a second chance: I would've taken a year off to do nothing but study for the LSAT. I would've probably improved considerably, since I started at a 153 and jumped to a 161; my third try was a 159, but I was sick on the test day. I could've cancelled, but I didn't think the score would hurt, since they only take your highest into consideration. Anyway, all you have to get an LSAT waiver is e-mail a school, say you're interested, give them a half-assed reason, and they'll likely give you the waiver. If you do poorly once more, wait for the scores to be erased after 5 years.

If after a year you can't raise the score, consider going to graduate school, getting a job, or doing anything else for those few years; you'll exponentially mature, and you'll have a much better idea of what you want out of life. Class rank and all of that evaporate with time, but school names stick. I kind of fucked up my chances, but I still have one more out, since I plan to go to graduate school. At least by the time I take the GRE, I'll have mastered test-taking, and I'll hopefully be able to get into an insane PhD or medical program.

That's my story; hopefully you can find something useful buried in it.

[romothesavior]

Law school is not for everyone. I think you might want to reconsider law school.

[kalvano]

Given that this is TLS, I'm surprised no one has said to kill yourself.

Of course, the other advice is pretty good. Find something else you enjoy. Law isn't for everyone.

I hear engineering is pretty good, though car sales might be easier and more money.

[A'nold]

OP, I was in a position similar to yours and thought I could transfer out after one year. I went in kind of cocky because of my background; my UGPA/LSAT were 3.14/161, but I had some real-world experience that I don't think many have. Long story short, I got in, fought my hardest, and ended up median. That's how it works. The last thing you want to to is graduate median at Cooley. As others have said, you won't get a single legal job, and you'll be overqualified for anything else.

Here's what I would do if I had a second chance: I would've taken a year off to do nothing but study for the LSAT. I would've probably improved considerably, since I started at a 153 and jumped to a 161; my third try was a 159, but I was sick on the test day. I could've cancelled, but I didn't think the score would hurt, since they only take your highest into consideration. Anyway, all you have to get an LSAT waiver is e-mail a school, say you're interested, give them a half-assed reason, and they'll likely give you the waiver. If you do poorly once more, wait for the scores to be erased after 5 years.

If after a year you can't raise the score, consider going to graduate school, getting a job, or doing anything else for those few years; you'll exponentially mature, and you'll have a much better idea of what you want out of life. Class rank and all of that evaporate with time, but school names stick. I kind of fucked up my chances, but I still have one more out, since I plan to go to graduate school. At least by the time I take the GRE, I'll have mastered test-taking, and I'll hopefully be able to get into an insane PhD or medical program.

That's my story; hopefully you can find something useful buried in it.

Wait, law school didn't work out the way you wanted and now you're going to try med. school? Why not make a go of law?

[engineer]

Wait, law school didn't work out the way you wanted and now you're going to try med. school? Why not make a go of law?

Haha, no, I've always been planning to do a double degree-- I'm tossing between a PhD and an MD. I've completed all the work for entry into either program, it's just figuring out where I'm more interested. Before coming to law school, I really wanted to do medical malpractice defense, but now that I'm here, I'm finding more of an interest in patent law. I had always shrugged off patent law, but not only does it seem like a logical fit, it would be a pretty cool job. Either way, law school teaches you how to think, and that thinking is immensely useful in whatever field you apply it to.

[kalvano]

Out of curiousity, how much debt do you plan on having when you're done with school?

[thecountofmc]

Thanks for everyone's advice, but here's more of my background and things I don't have to consider:

Additional info:
(1) I come from a decently wealthy family so debt is NOT a problem at all. Tuition is not even a consideration for me.
(2) I don't have much say in my future; so it's law school or bust.
(3) University: Double Major in Political Science and Economics
(4) Job Prospects: Governmental/Corporate Consultant
(5) Schools I am awaiting replies: Michigan StateU, NYLS, etc...
(6) I heard taking the LSAT too many times (like 4 times), hurt admission chance.

I appreciate everyone telling me take a year/few years off to study/work/etc... but realistically, my family really wants me to just get a law degree. According to their plans I just need to get a law degree and they will try to find legal connections after law school, etc... But I am less optimistic and hope I make the correct decision about my future (just in case its not all sunshine and daisies as they may think).
Regarding Cooley, it seems like the general consensus is that Cooley may not be the way to go... however, Cooley is a safety net for me, so I am still hesitant to remove it from my calculations.

Also, I understand distancing myself from my GPA is a good option, but would getting a job as a bank teller or government service employee be such a good idea? I hear people do WORSE in law school after they join the work force since its hard to get back into studying again.

P.S. I'll keep my thread titles less like what you'd see in your spam box from not on

[Iuvo]

If you're rich and all you need is a law degree, go to Cooley.

If your GPA is 2.45 and your LSAT is 155 (even after 3 times), no schools will really accept you, unless you use family connections to buy admissions to a T3.

ps. Flame.

[romothesavior]

Thank you for reminding us that no matter how wealthy a person becomes, they should never spoil their children or pay their way for them. If you do, your kids will blow off college, never work for anything, and become 2.45/155 Cooley applicants.

[20121109]

Thank you for reminding us that no matter how wealthy a person becomes, they should never spoil their children or pay their way for them. If you do, your kids will blow off college, never work for anything, and become 2.45/155 Cooley applicants.

TITCR <3

[webbylu87]

Wow. I really just don't know what to say.

Despite my flame alert going off in full force, OP, it seems like your family wants you to pursue a career which you'll really struggle at. Not that that's not to be expected, just that they're forcing you into a corner which may not be good for you and may end up making you very unhappy. This is a situation where I'd say grow a backbone and do what is best for you (i.e. don't go to LS, at least for a while until you can improve on the LSAT) and not just what your parents want. Cut the cord, man.

I echo romo's sentiments:

Thank you for reminding us that no matter how wealthy a person becomes, they should never spoil their children or pay their way for them. If you do, your kids will blow off college, never work for anything, and become 2.45/155 Cooley applicants.

[Grizz]

kill yourself.

[missjulie80]

take a year off ..get a job...go to graduate school or something...and retake the lsat...