Get in top 10% and NOT be a gunner??? Forum

[Jchouu]

I'm a 0L probably headed for Brooklyn, (deciding between that and pepperdine). I'm going in with the mentality of trying to transfer (not necessarily to a T-14, but just a better school, i.e. BU/BC), that way at least even if i fail, i'll still gotten into a decent spot ranking wise.
How is it possible for someone to get into the top10% while avoiding coming off like a gunner? For now I'm assuming that you just study your ass off as normal, but just don't sound like a cocky jackass during class?

aside from that, which school seems like a better choice for this? as in, which school will it probably be easier to get into the top percentage?

[quickquestionthanks]

I'm a 0L probably headed for Brooklyn, (deciding between that and pepperdine). I'm going in with the mentality of trying to transfer (not necessarily to a T-14, but just a better school, i.e. BU/BC), that way at least even if i fail, i'll still gotten into a decent spot ranking wise.
How is it possible for someone to get into the top10% while avoiding coming off like a gunner? For now I'm assuming that you just study your ass off as normal, but just don't sound like a cocky jackass during class?

aside from that, which school seems like a better choice for this? as in, which school will it probably be easier to get into the top percentage?

Yup.

As for which school...I'd say that depends on whether or not you surf

[A'nold]

For one thing, neither school will be "easier" to finish in the top 10%. For another thing, if you are fortunate enough to land top 10% at a school like Brooklyn, it would be dumb to transfer to a school like BU. You are probably looking at Vandy on up to make it worthwhile.

[shepdawg]

For now I'm assuming that you just study your ass off as normal, but just don't sound like a cocky jackass during class?

That's my plan. I am going to let all of my classmates think that I am just surfing and smoking everyday. That way they don't even bother to some of the sabotage tricks I have heard rumors about at the school I am going to attend. Things like completely wipe the top student's laptop, or slash tires.

[jetlagz28]

Just do the work like everyone else, keep your head down a little bit (don't shoot up your hand in class all the time), have something to talk about other than law school and try to look relaxed.

[270910]

Fun fact: law school requires a lot of work, but top 10% doesn't go to the people who work the hardest.

If you can learn to live with that reality, you will achieve better results and experience diminished psychological trauma.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It's definitely possible.
From what I hear- class participation plays a very minimal role on 1L grades.

[remotelyfeasible]

That's my plan. I am going to let all of my classmates think that I am just surfing and smoking everyday. That way they don't even bother to some of the sabotage tricks I have heard rumors about at the school I am going to attend. Things like completely wipe the top student's laptop, or slash tires.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that nobody does this anywhere. Or, at least, it is exceedingly rare everywhere.

[270910]

It's definitely possible.
From what I hear- class participation plays no role on 1L grades.

Fixed that for you.

The exceptions I have heard of involve basically complete dereliction of duty - being unprepared for every cold call and missing a lot of class. Many professors claim to adjust grades for participation, but evidence suggests they reserve the power and rarely ever use the power.

[IzziesGal]

I'll second that. Even what a prof tells you that your "voluntary" participation will boost your grade at the end, he is lying. There is a strict curve, and nothing they can do about it.

[imchuckbass58]

The thing that will really be a kick in the balls when you come to law school is not only is there not a significant correlation between the people who speak a lot in class and the people who do well, but there also isn't necessarily a strict correlation between the people who work hard and the people who do well.

One of my friends still has not finished her outlines (finals are next week) and has only done a couple of practice tests in one subject. This is similar to what she did last semester, when she got basically all As at CCN, mostly because she is just friggin brilliant and can whip it out well on tests. By contrast, I have a couple of friends who busted their asses harder than anyone else I know, and while they didn't do terribly, ended up at or below median.

Of course you should study your ass off, but implying that it's either necessary or sufficient to ending up in the top 10% does not reflect my experience.

[270910]

The thing that will really be a kick in the balls when you come to law school is not only is there not a significant correlation between the people who speak a lot in class and the people who do well, but there also isn't necessarily a strict correlation between the people who work hard and the people who do well.

One of my friends still has not finished her outlines (finals are next week) and has only done a couple of practice tests in one subject. This is similar to what she did last semester, when she got basically all As at CCN, mostly because she is just friggin brilliant and can whip it out well on tests. By contrast, I have a couple of friends who busted their asses harder than anyone else I know, and while they didn't do terribly, ended up at or below median.

Of course you should study your ass off, but implying that it's either necessary or sufficient to ending up in the top 10% does not reflect my experience.

Not sure I agree with your premise in paragraph two, but the rest is true and important.

[remotelyfeasible]

One of my friends still has not finished her outlines (finals are next week) and has only done a couple of practice tests in one subject. This is similar to what she did last semester, when she got basically all As at CCN, mostly because she is just friggin brilliant and can whip it out well on tests. By contrast, I have a couple of friends who busted their asses harder than anyone else I know, and while they didn't do terribly, ended up at or below median.

I usually finish my outlines two days before a test, so I can then look over practice exams the day before the test. How early, exactly, do you usually finish your outlines? (Her exam schedule does not seem at all unusual, even among top students.)

[imchuckbass58]

I usually finish my outlines two days before a test, so I can then look over practice exams the day before the test. How early, exactly, do you usually finish your outlines? (Her exam schedule does not seem at all unusual, even among top students.)

I mean, everyone has their own style - I'm don't think necessarily that if you don't finish 3 weeks ahead you're a slacker.

But I would say the standard MO people here is to finish outlines a week or two before finals, and then just do practice tests every day for 7-10 days.

Personally, I "finished" my outlines 2 weeks ago, though I've been revising and adding to them since as I do practice tests.

Again, to each his own - obviously there are people who managed to do better than me using different study methods, so I'm not going to claim that my way is superior.

[kings84_wr]

I never talked in class outside of cold calls and Im in the top 5% at my school, in fact I know a lot of gunners who are not so high on the list.

Being a gunner does not equate to good grades.

[prezidentv8]

I never talked in class outside of cold calls and Im in the top 5% at my school, in fact I know a lot of gunners who are not so high on the list.

Being a gunner does not equate to good grades.

You also have a sweet tar. Total win if you ask me.

[bk1]

I'm a 0L probably headed for Brooklyn, (deciding between that and pepperdine). I'm going in with the mentality of trying to transfer (not necessarily to a T-14, but just a better school, i.e. BU/BC), that way at least even if i fail, i'll still gotten into a decent spot ranking wise.
How is it possible for someone to get into the top10% while avoiding coming off like a gunner? For now I'm assuming that you just study your ass off as normal, but just don't sound like a cocky jackass during class?

aside from that, which school seems like a better choice for this? as in, which school will it probably be easier to get into the top percentage?

If you really want to go to a T14 (or T30 or whatever) why not wait a year and retake the LSAT?

I do not think that merely "trying hard" will guarantee you to be in a decently ranked. Though I am a 0L, I would expect that most people go to LS with the intention of trying very hard and that the intensity of that is likely only to increase the lower down in the rankings you go (where job prospects are slimmer).

[270910]

I do not think that merely "trying hard" will guarantee you to be in a decently ranked. Though I am a 0L, I would expect that most people go to LS with the intention of trying very hard and that the intensity of that is likely only to increase the lower down in the rankings you go (where job prospects are slimmer).

You are a smart 0L. Effort is uniformly enormous, which means doubling the effort of the guy already working hard next to you isn't going to pay returns.

[NYC2013]

It's easy: actually be smart and don't be pretentious about it. Professors respect real intelligence and so will your peers if you're humble and help out you're classmates and don't act like a douche

[A'nold]

It's weird for me. I would guess that most people know I am at the top (basically b/c one of my professors likes to talk about top students) but that hasn't really made a difference on the impression others seem to have on me. I like to joke around and never take things too seriously, and I think it turns off a lot of my classmates, especially when they know I am near the top of the class. I am talking about most of the class, not my friends or anything like that. It's just that I think classmates expect to see certain people at the top (note: gunner douches) and when they see someone like me there they just assume I got lucky or law school grading is completely random, which pisses them off. Also, students that aren't outwardly gunnerish at my school or students that have a sense of humor that are at the top of the class get a lot of behind-your-back talking. For example, there is this one girl that really, REALLY seems dumb that is a top 10 student. All I ever hear about her is "that idiot did that well? What the hell?"

As for studying, I have to say I don't really get all of the practice exam stuff. I memorize the course, come in with my checklist, go through my checklist with each scenario to make sure I am not missing anything, then I apply the law to fact and disect the hell out of the issues, argue both sides, and (LEEWS) nitpick the facts. I also look at what that certain professor likes in an exam answer and take notes throughout the semester whenever they drop hints about it.

Works for me, or, at least it did last semester.

[2009 Prospective]

Anybody else find it odd that OP is choosing between Pepperdine and Brooklyn?

[remotelyfeasible]

Anybody else find it odd that OP is choosing between Pepperdine and Brooklyn?

Because Pepperdine is idyllic, and Brooklyn is... in Brooklyn?

[sayan]

The thing that will really be a kick in the balls when you come to law school is not only is there not a significant correlation between the people who speak a lot in class and the people who do well, but there also isn't necessarily a strict correlation between the people who work hard and the people who do well.

One of my friends still has not finished her outlines (finals are next week) and has only done a couple of practice tests in one subject. This is similar to what she did last semester, when she got basically all As at CCN, mostly because she is just friggin brilliant and can whip it out well on tests. By contrast, I have a couple of friends who busted their asses harder than anyone else I know, and while they didn't do terribly, ended up at or below median.

Of course you should study your ass off, but implying that it's either necessary or sufficient to ending up in the top 10% does not reflect my experience.

Not sure I agree with your premise in paragraph two, but the rest is true and important.

You sound very knowledgeable... are you a top student by any chance? Just curious since you come across that way.