Georgetown's surprisingly high acceptance standard (FT)! Forum

[violinst]

I just looked at GULC's data on LSAC's website, and I was surprised to see that the full-time students there have the following numbers:

167/170/172 (this places GULC right between T6 and the rest of T14)
3.42/3.67/3.81

These numbers are better than those of many higher-ranked schools, and I am surprised because GULC does not seem to get much respect here (whether one likes the school is a different matter).
I also looked at the most current employment data
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1
If one assumes that most of those jobs went to full-time students (a reasonable assumption?), then GULC actually does very well placement-wise.

I am not trolling for GULC. I am just genuinely surprised.

[youpiiz]

[violinst]

What is this? Don't get it.

[kalvano]

--ImageRemoved--

[los blancos]

He probably posted a picture from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking.

GULC gets hated on because of its PT program, its large class size, and its competitive environment. TBH I don't think it's a better school than any of the schools ranked higher than it.

[youpiiz]

deleted

[fortissimo]

He probably posted a picture from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking.

GULC gets hated on because of its PT program, its large class size, and its competitive environment. TBH I don't think it's a better school than any of the schools ranked higher than it.

It also has super shitty clerkship placement...(ditto with academia placement).

If OP is going to link employment data, at least add in clerkships please because in general clerkships >> biglaw in terms of how difficult they are to get.

[violinst]

He probably posted a picture from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking.

GULC gets hated on because of its PT program, its large class size, and its competitive environment. TBH I don't think it's a better school than any of the schools ranked higher than it.

It also has super shitty clerkship placement...(ditto with academia placement).

If OP is going to link employment data, at least add in clerkships please because in general clerkships >> biglaw in terms of how difficult they are to get.

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml

Better than UPenn at least. Also, Leiter used the FT+PT number, though I doubt that any one in the PT program would do clerkship. If Leiter had only used the FT number, GULC could have ranked much higher!

[kalvano]

Stop trolling for GULC. Or at least make some effort to hide it.

[violinst]

Stop trolling for GULC. Or at least make some effort to hide it.

No. I just want to be in D.C and rationalize my decision of not picking Michigan$$, Duke, or Cornell(possible$$).

I was really surprised though, for I never looked at GULC's FT stats specifically.

[fortissimo]

He probably posted a picture from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking.

GULC gets hated on because of its PT program, its large class size, and its competitive environment. TBH I don't think it's a better school than any of the schools ranked higher than it.

It also has super shitty clerkship placement...(ditto with academia placement).

If OP is going to link employment data, at least add in clerkships please because in general clerkships >> biglaw in terms of how difficult they are to get.

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml

Better than UPenn at least. Also, Leiter used the FT+PT number, though I doubt that any one in the PT program would do clerkship. If Leiter had only used the FT number, GULC could have ranked much higher!

Again, this is just SCOTUS placement.

You need ARTICLE III clerkship placement data (includes SCOTUS, fed COA, and fed district). If I remember correctly, GULC has a really poor Article III placement showing.

[violinst]

He probably posted a picture from a site that doesn't allow hotlinking.

GULC gets hated on because of its PT program, its large class size, and its competitive environment. TBH I don't think it's a better school than any of the schools ranked higher than it.

It also has super shitty clerkship placement...(ditto with academia placement).

If OP is going to link employment data, at least add in clerkships please because in general clerkships >> biglaw in terms of how difficult they are to get.

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2000 ... erks.shtml

Better than UPenn at least. Also, Leiter used the FT+PT number, though I doubt that any one in the PT program would do clerkship. If Leiter had only used the FT number, GULC could have ranked much higher!

Again, this is just SCOTUS placement.

You need ARTICLE III clerkship placement data (includes SCOTUS, fed COA, and fed district). If I remember correctly, GULC has a poor Article III placement showing.

I thought that the SCOTUS placement would be most telling.

I think that GULC suffers in ranking whenever people take into account the PT stats. And I do think that, to future employers, there is a difference between the FT program and the PT one.

[fortissimo]

I thought that the SCOTUS placement would be most telling.

You have got to be kidding me. Article III includes SCOTUS, by the way, and pretty much all federal clerkships are considered more prestigious than most biglaw.

[MC Southstar]

You're not getting a SCOTUS clerkship.

hth

[fortissimo]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

[violinst]

I thought that the SCOTUS placement would be most telling.

You have got to be kidding me. Article III includes SCOTUS, by the way, and pretty much all federal clerkships are considered more prestigious than most biglaw.

How am I kidding you?

It's most telling since SCOTUS clerkships are the most difficult ones to get. Adding other clerkships into the mix would simply dilute the difficulty. Again, if one assumes that only full-time students at GULC get SCOTUS clerkships (very reasonable to me), than GULC does pretty well in SCOTUS clerkship placement as well.

Look, you seem to be very combative. If you have a beef with GULC, vent it somewhere else. I simply was surprised that G-town's FT students have good stats and its placements in NLJ250 firms and SCOTUS clerkships are quite good (if, again, one assumes that most of jobs went to 450-or-so FT students).

[violinst]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

Was this ranking based the FT+PT number or the FT number alone?

[fortissimo]

I thought that the SCOTUS placement would be most telling.

You have got to be kidding me. Article III includes SCOTUS, by the way, and pretty much all federal clerkships are considered more prestigious than most biglaw.

How am I kidding you?

It's most telling since SCOTUS clerkships are the most difficult ones to get. Adding other clerkships into the mix would simply dilute the difficulty. Again, if one assumes that only full-time students at GULC get SCOTUS clerkships (very reasonable to me), than GULC does pretty well in SCOTUS clerkship placement as well.

Look, you seem to be very combative. If you have a beef with GULC, vent it somewhere else. I simply was surprised that G-town's FT students have good stats and its placements in NLJ250 firms and SCOTUS clerkships are quite good (if, again, one assumes that most of jobs went to 450-or-so FT students).

The reason why I think you should include Article III clerkships is because they tend to require higher GPAs than biglaw does. Adding in Article III clerkship placement with biglaw placement paints a more accurate picture of actual employment prospects than just posting stats about biglaw alone.

Yes, SCOTUS clerkships are harder to get, but how does this defeat my point that all Article III clerkships in general are harder to get than biglaw? Isn't the entire point to paint an an accurate employment picture for the schools? Why would you only add in SCOTUS placement when pretty much ALL ARTICLE III CLERKSHIPS require higher GPAs than biglaw?

[violinst]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

And the true federal clerkship ranking:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513
--LinkRemoved--
Alabama, Kentucky, and Ohio State all seem to do very well.

I believe that the SCOTUS ranking is still the most telling. And I still think that on the FT number should be used in Leiter's ranking.

[los blancos]

Stop trolling for GULC. Or at least make some effort to hide it.

No. I just want to be in D.C and rationalize my decision of not picking Michigan$$, Duke, or Cornell(possible$$).

Duke (and UVa) probably place better in DC than GULC (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and their COA is lower to boot.

[fortissimo]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

And the true federal clerkship ranking:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513
--LinkRemoved--
Alabama, Kentucky, and Ohio State all seem to do very well.

I believe that the SCOTUS ranking is still the most telling. And I still think that on the FT number should be used in Leiter's ranking.

I said NLJ and Article III clerkships. The statistics I posted added in BOTH BIGLAW AND CLERKSHIP placement rates, so they added in those clerkship statistics you linked.

[violinst]

Logic fail, OP.

The reason why I think you should include Article III clerkships is because they tend to require higher GPAs than biglaw does. Adding in Article III clerkship placement with biglaw placement paints a more accurate picture of actual employment prospects than just posting stats about biglaw alone.

Yes, SCOTUS clerkships are harder to get, but how does this defeat my point that all Article III clerkships in general are harder to get than biglaw? Isn't the entire point to paint an an accurate employment picture for the schools? Why would you only add in SCOTUS placement when pretty much ALL ARTICLE III CLERKSHIPS require higher GPAs than biglaw?

Really? --LinkRemoved--
New Mexico better than Columbia, Berkeley, NYU, UCLA,.....
Again, SCOTUS clerkship placement is the most telling, while Article III is not.

[los blancos]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

This is actually kind of shocking. There's a ~10% spread between Dook and Yale (#2-#10), and a ~13% spread between Duke and GULC (#10-#15)

Also, as with any data that relies on NLJ250 placement as a proxy for biglaw, UT, USC and UCLA are underrated due to their geographic locations (but I'm an idiot 0L, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[fortissimo]

This is actually kind of shocking. There's a ~10% spread between Dook and Yale (#2-#10), and a ~13% spread between Duke and GULC (#10-#15)

Also, as with any data that relies on NLJ250 placement as a proxy for biglaw, UT, USC and UCLA are underrated due to their geographic locations (but I'm an idiot 0L, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

It's hard to tell, because it seems most people don't get biglaw outside of OCI right now. So if NYC firms don't go to USC, UCLA, or UT's OCIs, they probably won't land NYC biglaw anyway because mass mailing typically does not work. (And I don't think we consider non NLJ 250 firms as biglaw.)

[violinst]

NLJ and Article III Clerkships
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

1. Stanford - 77.1%
2. Yale - 72.1%
3. Harvard - 65.7%
4. Virginia - 65.2%
5. Michigan - 64.9%
6. Columbia - 64.0%
7. Chicago - 63.1%
8. Northwestern - 62.7%
9. Penn - 61.7%
10. Duke - 61.5%
11. Berkeley - 58.1%
12. NYU - 57.4%
13. Vanderbilt - 55.0%
14. Cornell - 52.4%
15. Georgetown - 48.4%
16. Texas - 47.5%
17. USC - 47.2%
18. UCLA - 41.9%
19. Boston College - 38.0%
20. Notre Dame - 37.8%

And the true federal clerkship ranking:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513
--LinkRemoved--
Alabama, Kentucky, and Ohio State all seem to do very well.

I believe that the SCOTUS ranking is still the most telling. And I still think that on the FT number should be used in Leiter's ranking.

Are you seriously ESL?

Note, I said NLJ and Article III clerkships. The statistics I posted added in BOTH BIGLAW AND CLERKSHIP placement rates, so yes, they added in those clerkship statistics you linked.

And, again:
Logic fail, OP.

The reason why I think you should include Article III clerkships is because they tend to require higher GPAs than biglaw does. Adding in Article III clerkship placement with biglaw placement paints a more accurate picture of actual employment prospects than just posting stats about biglaw alone.

Yes, SCOTUS clerkships are harder to get, but how does this defeat my point that all Article III clerkships in general are harder to get than biglaw? Isn't the entire point to paint an an accurate employment picture for the schools? Why would you only add in SCOTUS placement when pretty much ALL ARTICLE III CLERKSHIPS require higher GPAs than biglaw?

I thought that the SCOTUS placement would be most telling.

You have got to be kidding me. Article III includes SCOTUS, by the way, and pretty much all federal clerkships are considered more prestigious than most biglaw.

No name-calling please.

You tried to defeat my point that the SCOTUS clerkship placement is more telling than your Article III clerkship placement. And I disagreed.

Really? --LinkRemoved--
New Mexico better than Columbia, Berkeley, NYU, UCLA,.....
Again, SCOTUS clerkship placement is the most telling, while Article III is not.

To combine both BigLaw and SCOTUS placements, I would still say that, if one reasonably assumes that most of the jobs went to FT students (and thus resulting higher percentages than reported), Georgetown does very well.