What would you do Forum

[onthecusp]

I've been admitted into a couple TTTT almost for free. I have no big law aspirations, and my preference lies in attending either Chapman or Southwestern...both TTT schools. I have to go somewhere regional and I haven't the numbers to get into USC, UCLA, or Irvine. So basically it comes down to Southwestern, Chapman, La Verne, Whittier and Western State. I really want to go to my 1st and 2nd choices, but one...I don't know if I'm in yet, two...I don't how much money, if any I'll be getting.

Would you attend a solid TTT rapidly approaching TT status offering you less, and possibly no money, over a TTTT offering a near full ride?

[rw2264]

TTT. money can be made back.

[icydash]

This is a tough decision dude.

I have to disagree with the previous poster. The reality is coming out of a TTT or a TTTT will make life difficult for you.... You're probably going to have a really rough time getting a job regardless of which school you pick. Past lower ranked Tier 2 schools, I don't think employers really view there to be much difference in schools based on ranks.... especially not a TTT vs TTTT. Your school is sort of: T14, Tier 1, Lower Tier 2....or not.

You'd probably be better off taking the money and running -- at least when you have trouble finding a job after, you won't be in nearly as much in debt (if any).

[Cupidity]

If you get unconditional full-tuition from any school, I'd take it over any debt at a TTT. Beware though, many lower ranked schools put strings on their scholarships and section stack. In practice this means:

100 kids at Florida Coastal get full ride requiring they are in the top 1/3

They all get placed in the same section

66 of them automatically lose their scholarship by the end of the first semester

So, beware of any money the TTTorTTTT schools offer you.

[Kilpatrick]

.

[icydash]

If you get unconditional full-tuition from any school, I'd take it over any debt at a TTT. Beware though, many lower ranked schools put strings on their scholarships and section stack. In practice this means:

100 kids at Florida Coastal get full ride requiring they are in the top 1/3

They all get placed in the same section

66 of them automatically lose their scholarship by the end of the first semester

So, beware of any money the TTTorTTTT schools offer you.

But all 100 of those kids got the first semester free, which is still better then taking a TTT school with no money. I pretty much say regardless, in this situation, take the money and run....but good point. =)

[prezidentv8]

[JustDude]

I've been admitted into a couple TTTT almost for free. I have no big law aspirations, and my preference lies in attending either Chapman or Southwestern...both TTT schools. I have to go somewhere regional and I haven't the numbers to get into USC, UCLA, or Irvine. So basically it comes down to Southwestern, Chapman, La Verne, Whittier and Western State. I really want to go to my 1st and 2nd choices, but one...I don't know if I'm in yet, two...I don't how much money, if any I'll be getting.

Would you attend a solid TTT rapidly approaching TT status offering you less, and possibly no money, over a TTTT offering a near full ride?

No to both. Why waste 3 years??? Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn.

[Kchuck]

This is perfect.

[icydash]

This is perfect.

I don't get it?

[prezidentv8]

This is perfect.

I don't get it?

Dammit, Craig....

[Kchuck]

I don't get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Would_You_Do%3F

[icydash]

I don't get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Would_You_Do%3F

ohhh

[onthecusp]

This is a tough decision dude.

I have to disagree with the previous poster. The reality is coming out of a TTT or a TTTT will make life difficult for you.... You're probably going to have a really rough time getting a job regardless of which school you pick. Past lower ranked Tier 2 schools, I don't think employers really view there to be much difference in schools based on ranks.... especially not a TTT vs TTTT. Your school is sort of: T14, Tier 1, Lower Tier 2....or not.

You'd probably be better off taking the money and running -- at least when you have trouble finding a job after, you won't be in nearly as much in debt (if any).

I guess that really depends on what you want with your law degree. I'm a married man with a kid. I can't afford to drag my family across the country in the spirit of getting into the best school possible. With my numbers, the best local school I could realistically get into is Loyola. But if I don't at least get into Loyola, does that mean give up being a lawyer, even with the prospect of a free legal education? Maybe for some...but I'm going all in with myself doing something that I want to do for the rest of my life. And what I want to do doesn't require a T14 name on the paper they give you when you graduate. Am I gunning for a possible transfer into UCLA or USC...you bet your ass (and call me naive...but I think I have the balls to pull it off. Why the eff not...I've come this far). Doesn't mean I'm going to hang myself if it doesn't happen.

[icydash]

But if I don't at least get into Loyola, does that mean give up being a lawyer, even with the prospect of a free legal education? Maybe for some...

No it doesn't...That's why I said, if you're going to go with a crap school anyway, take the one that offers you money so at least you aren't broke AND out of a job when you graduate.

but I'm going all in with myself doing something that I want to do for the rest of my life. And what I want to do doesn't require a T14 name on the paper they give you when you graduate.

Are you sure about that? Just because it's not big law, doesn't mean you don't need a JD from a reasonable institution (Tier 1). What exactly is it you want to do that requires a JD but not a good one?

I'm a married man with a kid. I can't afford to drag my family across the country in the spirit of getting into the best school possible.

Almost every region has a tier 1 school somewhere in it or near it. You would hardly have to "drag your family across the country" to go to a reasonable school (Tier 1) with infinitely more career prospects then a TTT/TTTT.


Honestly, and I could be wrong, this all sounds like excuses you're giving yourself to justify not studying/not doing well on the LSAT. Man up, do yourself and your family a favor and retake the LSAT. Then go to a Tier 1 school in your region/close to home. You'll be happy you did.

[Notor]

I would retake the LSAT

[onthecusp]

No it doesn't...That's why I said, if you're going to go with a crap school anyway, take the one that offers you money so at least you aren't broke AND out of a job when you graduate.

Touche

Are you sure about that? Just because it's not big law, doesn't mean you don't need a JD from a reasonable institution (Tier 1). What exactly is it you want to do that requires a JD but not a good one?

I want to work in the DA or Public Defenders office. I already have really good connections to people already in the DA. I work for an attorney who used to work for the DA and told me explicitly that most of the people working there were from schools like Western State, La Verne, Southwestern, Chapman, of course some from UCLA and USC. And think about it...it makes sense. The vast majority of students attending USC and UCLA aren't going there to work in either of those offices.

[onthecusp]

I would retake the LSAT

It's not my LSAT score that has me in this predicament.....unfortunately.

[icydash]

I want to work in the DA or Public Defenders office. I already have really good connections to people already in the DA. I work for an attorney who used to work for the DA and told me explicitly that most of the people working there were from schools like Western State, La Verne, Southwestern, Chapman, of course some from UCLA and USC. And think about it...it makes sense. The vast majority of students attending USC and UCLA aren't going there to work in either of those offices.

This seems like a cool job (something I've thought about), and you're correct about it often being the lower ranked school graduates who take it. However, you can still be a DA comming from a higher ranked school, while leaving many, many more doors open. You can still probably get this job coming from a TTT school, but then if god forbid one day you decide you want to do something else in law, you're really, really in a bad position.

If it's not your LSAT score that's the problem, then what is it--UGPA?

[onthecusp]

This seems like a cool job (something I've thought about), and you're correct about it often being the lower ranked school graduates who take it. However, you can still be a DA comming from a higher ranked school, while leaving many, many more doors open. You can still probably get this job coming from a TTT school, but then if god forbid one day you decide you want to do something else in law, you're really, really in a bad position.

If it's not your LSAT score that's the problem, then what is it--UGPA?

I graduated from Devry. Seriously. Long story....don't really want to get into it. The only way I can justify the scholarship offers I've received is they must have really liked my personal statement / Diversity statement.

Again....LOOOONNNNG STORY. I'm not lazy, I'm not an idiot...I did what I had to do. And I'd rather not make this about that.

And you make a great point. And who knows...maybe I get into Loyola. And if not, I'm going to try like hell to get into one of the local top schools via transfer. I'm also trying to stay realistic.

[icydash]

This seems like a cool job (something I've thought about), and you're correct about it often being the lower ranked school graduates who take it. However, you can still be a DA comming from a higher ranked school, while leaving many, many more doors open. You can still probably get this job coming from a TTT school, but then if god forbid one day you decide you want to do something else in law, you're really, really in a bad position.

If it's not your LSAT score that's the problem, then what is it--UGPA?

I graduated from Devry. Seriously. Long story....don't really want to get into it. The only way I can justify the scholarship offers I've received is they must have really liked my personal statement / Diversity statement.

Again....LOOOONNNNG STORY. I'm not lazy, I'm not an idiot...I did what I had to do. And I'd rather not make this about that.

The school you went to is relatively unimportant to most admissions committees. You actually may not be at as much of a handicap as you think. I'm assuming you graduated with a bachelors and not an associates, though. Is that correct? If so, what was your UGPA from Devry and what is your LSAT score? Also, are you a URM? If you tell us more about yourself, we may be able to give better guidance. I don't think you're at as much of a disadvantage as you think you are.

[onthecusp]

The school you went to is relatively unimportant to most admissions committees. You actually may not be at as much of a handicap as you think. I'm assuming you graduated with a bachelors and not an associates, though. Is that correct? If so, what was your UGPA from Devry and what is your LSAT score? Also, are you a URM? If you tell us more about yourself, we may be able to give better guidance. I don't think you're at as much of a disadvantage as you think you are.

3.05 / 161 URM

But coming from Devry, I have to believe it makes the UGPA seem much lower than it already is. I really had to step up my game on my apps and explain why I went to Devry. Basically Ohio State wouldn't take my transfer credits and I didn't want to start over. Devry facilitated a faster graduation. I graduated five years ago and have solid work experience, so I think that's helped me thus far.

[onthecusp]

I'm still holding out hope for at least a TT admit...I really just wanted to see what people would say about taking TTTT for free over going to a better school, that wasn't a tier 1...probably at sticker.

[MURPH]

This seems like a cool job (something I've thought about), and you're correct about it often being the lower ranked school graduates who take it. However, you can still be a DA comming from a higher ranked school, while leaving many, many more doors open. You can still probably get this job coming from a TTT school, but then if god forbid one day you decide you want to do something else in law, you're really, really in a bad position.

If it's not your LSAT score that's the problem, then what is it--UGPA?

I graduated from Devry. Seriously. Long story....don't really want to get into it. The only way I can justify the scholarship offers I've received is they must have really liked my personal statement / Diversity statement.

Again....LOOOONNNNG STORY. I'm not lazy, I'm not an idiot...I did what I had to do. And I'd rather not make this about that.

And you make a great point. And who knows...maybe I get into Loyola. And if not, I'm going to try like hell to get into one of the local top schools via transfer. I'm also trying to stay realistic.

The scholarship offers may be offered to almost everyone as a way of luring the students into one section and then dumping 2/3 or them from the scholarship lists as the previous poster explained.
If you think you have the balls to be top gunner at a T4 then why not just spend 3 months studying for the LSAT 4-6 hours per day 5-6 days per week until the June test. Pull a 170+ and go to Loyola. Seriously. This is so much smarter than going to a TTTT with the hope of transferring. You wrote that is is not you LSAT that is holding you back but there are very few things you can control at this point. You can't undo your undergraduate school and you can't undo your GPA. You can control four things that will make a difference
1. You can get a hight LSAT score.
2. you can write a kick ass PS. It sounds like you did write a good one so let it simmer for a while and after the June LSAT, take another look and rewrite it.
3. You can apply in the first week of the cycle when adcoms are supposed to be more lenient.
4. Volunteer at the DA office for a year, once a week for 5 hours or so.

That is what you can do. It will give you a stronger foundation from which you can build a future for your family. It will help you get into a better school and get the job you want upon graduation.
Or go to a T3 or T4 with a risky scholarship.

[OneKnight]

I would retake the LSAT

It's not my LSAT score that has me in this predicament.....unfortunately.

After seeing your stats, your LSAT is a big part of this predicament. I don't have any data on Devry grads and ls acceptance, but, if you're getting scholly money from Tier4 schools, obviously Devry is not the kiss of death. I'd bet the farm with around a 165 you'd be in at Loyola. You could probably get Davis too...and other lower Tier1s, given that your an URM.

Edit: And if your story is as good as you say it is, I'm probably lowballing the prediction!