Novel Way to Get to Law School...T14 perhaps, too! Forum

[notanumber]

Terrorists, child molesters and serial killers get no pass, but I believe the rest can, to varying degrees, be rehabed.

I undestand why one would believe that child molesters and serial killers are unable to be rehabilitated (if one thinks that they're pathological conditions) but the inclusion of terrorism strikes me as odd. Terrorism is usually motivated by religion or politics. An individual's religious and political beliefs can clearly change over their lifetime and the underlying sociopolitical factors that incited the terrorist act can also change.

Now, I don't think that major terrorists who kill folk should ever be out walking the streets, but I'm perfectly wiling to believe that some terrorists (and again, I'm not talking about the 9/11 folk here), like some murderers and some bank robbers, can be rehabilitated and, after they have been suitably punished for their crime, can become productive members of society. It all depends on the context.

[toolshed]

I wouldn't want him in my section.

I would, curve bait.

I'm not sure what this means.

I have no problem with him being there. I just don't want another person ahead of me on the curve.

[sibley]

Terrorists, child molesters and serial killers get no pass, but I believe the rest can, to varying degrees, be rehabed.

I undestand why one would believe that child molesters and serial killers are unable to be rehabilitated (if one thinks that they're pathological conditions) but the inclusion of terrorism strikes me as odd. Terrorism is usually motivated by religion or politics. An individual's religious and political beliefs can clearly change over their lifetime and the underlying sociopolitical factors that incited the terrorist act can also change.

Now, I don't think that major terrorists who kill folk ever be out walking the streets, but I'm perfectly wiling to believe that some terrorists (and again, I'm not talking about the 9/11 folk here), like some murderers and some bank robbers, can be rehabilitated and, after they have been suitably punished for their crime, can become productive members of society. It all depends on the context.

+1.

[GATORTIM]

It all depends on the context.

[starstruck393]

I wouldn't want him in my section.

I would, curve bait.

I'm not sure what this means.

I have no problem with him being there. I just don't want another person ahead of me on the curve.

He doesn't think he would do well, and therefore would bring down the curve...

[JTX]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

[starstruck393]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

[toolshed]

I wouldn't want him in my section.

I would, curve bait.

I'm not sure what this means.

I have no problem with him being there. I just don't want another person ahead of me on the curve.

He doesn't think he would do well, and therefore would bring down the curve...

I don't see that happening. Of the entire entering class, he would be one of the very few who has demonstrated the ability to write exactly what law school exams test. I'd put money on him being high up there (assuming his work ethic is not reliant on having no other available options to use free time...).

[sibley]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

Coercion through threat of violence is pretty darn close.

edit for spelling, then again for spelling of edit message...

[starstruck393]

I wouldn't want him in my section.

I would, curve bait.

I'm not sure what this means.

I have no problem with him being there. I just don't want another person ahead of me on the curve.

He doesn't think he would do well, and therefore would bring down the curve...

I don't see that happening. Of the entire entering class, he would be one of the very few who has demonstrated the ability to write exactly what law school exams test. I'd put money on him being high up there (assuming his work ethic is not reliant on having no other available options to use free time...).

Oh, I do too, at least in some classes if not overall. I'd hate to have him in my Legal Practice class; yikes. Herr Rommel seems to have a different opinion on his abilities, though...

[GATORTIM]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

Are you serious!? I'm sure that the guns he was referring to were pastel colored water pistols and he gave the tellers and patrons mats to lay on and probably used please and thank you throughout the entire ordeal...Have you ever been in a situation involving guns or had one put in you or a friends face? The experience is extremely violent.

[jks289]

[
Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

Coercion though threat of violence is pretty darn close.

Yes, and had someone actually been hurt he would be subject to additional penalties based on his having brought a gun. BUT, no one was hurt and there was no evidence that he intended to hurt anyone. Hence, the offense is non-violent. I am not the one reserving the "tag," I am stating a fact.

[starstruck393]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

Coercion though threat of violence is pretty darn close.

Was there threat of violence, because I haven't seen any. It's one thing to imply threat of violence, but it's another to actively threaten it. As far as I can tell, he had no intention of using force, but just used an implied threat to his advantage. It's the same thing as holding someone up with a gun shaped object in your pocket, or a fake bomb threat. Are those violent too? There's never an actual threat there, but they use the implied threat to achieve their goals.

[notanumber]

Are you serious!? I'm sure that the guns he was referring to were pastel colored water pistols and he gave the tellers and patrons mats to lay on and probably used please and thank you throughout the entire ordeal...Have you ever been in a situation involving guns or had one put in you or a friends face? The experience is extremely violent.

+1. I've had a loaded gun pulled on me (long story). What GatorTim says is very true. The SCOTUS cert guy was clearly a violent criminal. Still deserves a seat in law school IMHO.

Violent crimes include crimes with a threat of violence. There's no way that using a gun in the commission of a crime is non-violent.

[GATORTIM]

Was there threat of violence, because I haven't seen any. It's one thing to imply threat of violence, but it's another to actively threaten it. As far as I can tell, he had no intention of using force, but just used an implied threat to his advantage. It's the same thing as holding someone up with a gun shaped object in your pocket, or a fake bomb threat. Are those violent too? There's never an actual threat there, but they use the implied threat to achieve their goals.

I'm sure if he didn't say "I'm going to blow your $%&* head off if you try to stop me" then there was at least a perceived threat. However, I'm willing to bet there was a threat of violence. Do you really think he is going to recite verbatim what went down in the bank after he has done his time and is seeking admission to law school?

[notanumber]

As an aside, I'd love to read this guy's "criminal record" addendum.

Edit: as another aside. I find is slightly disturbing that both GatorTim and I have guns in our avatars.

[starstruck393]

Moral of the story...if convicted for armed robbery, but manage to polish your legal brief-writing skills behind bars then you have a shot at T-14 and your robbery and detainment of innocent individuals at gunpoint becomes a speed bump.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but if this fool is admitted to a prestigious law school and lauded for his "accomplishments" behind bars then something is wrong. His notoriety is drawn from a series of events that are directly correlated to him threatening lives of individuals at gunpoint and taking FDIC insured money because he fell on hard economic times.

I too have been strapped for cash, but decided against knocking off a liquor store or holding the life of an innocent mother, father, brother or sister at the tip of a trigger-finger. No, I busted my ass to overcome and wasnt afforded the "luxory" of time and resources while sitting in a prison library educating myself. This has to be a joke. /rant

Seriously? The man in a non-violent offender who paid his debt to society and was a model prisoner. He didn't just "polish his legal brief-writing skills." He acomplished something that most lawyers will not in the whole of their careers. He has dedicated his time to assisting people who otherwise wouldn't have a voice, and some of the top legal minds in the nation have identified his abilities. I'd be proud to be in his classes, and bet I'd have a few things to learn from him.

“ 'We would walk into a bank with firearms, tell people to get down, take the money and run,' he said".

How about we reserve the nonviolent tag for, say, i dunno, nonviolent offenders... pot smokers, speeding tickets, petty bicycle thefts, etc... Who is buying that waving guns in people's faces counts as nonviolent?

How is that in any way violent? He didn't shoot anyone, he didn't kill anyone, he didn't pistol whip anyone. He didn't even touch anyone. Look at the quote. He went in with his gun, told people to get down (without lighting off a few to get them moving), took the money and left. The extent of his "violence" was scaring people, that's it. Face it, while serious, it was a non-violent crime. No one was hurt.

Are you serious!? I'm sure that the guns he was referring to were pastel colored water pistols and he gave the tellers and patrons mats to lay on and probably used please and thank you throughout the entire ordeal...Have you ever been in a situation involving guns or had one put in you or a friends face? The experience is extremely violent.

I've been in many situations involving guns. They're not that scary. Do we have any evidence that guns were put in anyones face? All it said was that they walked in with guns, and told people to get down. Actually, I'd bet that the robbers stayed as far away from the people in the bank as they could, lest the situation degrade.

You're completely mis-interpreting the event. Was it scary? Sure. Violent? Absolutely not...

[sibley]

As an aside, I'd love to read this guy's "criminal record" addendum.

=)

[starstruck393]

Was there threat of violence, because I haven't seen any. It's one thing to imply threat of violence, but it's another to actively threaten it. As far as I can tell, he had no intention of using force, but just used an implied threat to his advantage. It's the same thing as holding someone up with a gun shaped object in your pocket, or a fake bomb threat. Are those violent too? There's never an actual threat there, but they use the implied threat to achieve their goals.

I'm sure if he didn't say "I'm going to blow your $%&* head off if you try to stop me" then there was at least a perceived threat. However, I'm willing to bet there was a threat of violence. Do you really think he is going to recite verbatim what went down in the bank after he has done his time and is seeking admission to law school?

There's a difference between a perceived threat and an actual threat. I can perceive your driving as threatening, but if there's no intent to threaten, and very little actual threat, does that make you a violent driver?

[GATORTIM]

I've been in many situations involving guns. They're not that scary. Do we have any evidence that guns were put in anyones face? All it said was that they walked in with guns, and told people to get down. Actually, I'd bet that the robbers stayed as far away from the people in the bank as they could, lest the situation degrade.

You're completely mis-interpreting the event. Was it scary? Sure. Violent? Absolutely not...

Okay...I'm not talking about that time you and your brother played cowboys and indians. Unless you are Hancock or Clark Kent I have a feeling you would urinate yourself (or at least sprinkle a bit) if a stranger put a gun in your face and you had no idea if they intended to pull the trigger or not.

You're right though, I'm sure that this guy (whos name I have no f'n idea of right now) and his posse strolled into the bank with their weapons pointed in the air and prob had the safety engaged or even a gun-lock on their pistols. How would they stay away from the people in the bank? They had to gain access to the drawers, vault, etc.

[notanumber]

I've been in many situations involving guns. They're not that scary.

Unless by "situations" you mean hanging out at the firing range then you're either extensively trained in firearm use or you're a very unique person. For most people having a loaded gun pulled on them during the commission of a crime would be a terrifying experience. I know it was for me.

[notanumber]

Was there threat of violence, because I haven't seen any. It's one thing to imply threat of violence, but it's another to actively threaten it. As far as I can tell, he had no intention of using force, but just used an implied threat to his advantage. It's the same thing as holding someone up with a gun shaped object in your pocket, or a fake bomb threat. Are those violent too? There's never an actual threat there, but they use the implied threat to achieve their goals.

I'm sure if he didn't say "I'm going to blow your $%&* head off if you try to stop me" then there was at least a perceived threat. However, I'm willing to bet there was a threat of violence. Do you really think he is going to recite verbatim what went down in the bank after he has done his time and is seeking admission to law school?

There's a difference between a perceived threat and an actual threat. I can perceive your driving as threatening, but if there's no intent to threaten, and very little actual threat, does that make you a violent driver?

And I'm sure they brought their guns to the bank without the intent to threaten anybody. They probably just came from the firing range and forget that they were still carrying them ...

[sibley]

I've been in many situations involving guns. They're not that scary.

Unless by "situations" you mean hanging out at the firing range then you're either extensively trained in firearm use or you're a bit of a sociopath. For most people having a loaded gun pulled on them during the commission of a crime would be a terrifying experience. I know it was for me.

I was on a footbridge near my school and a kid from the bad neighborhood on the other side of the bridge was standing in the middle. He leaned over the edge to look at something in the water. He was wearing a jersey, and I could see the outline of something very gun-like sticking out of the back of his pants.

If he'd asked me to do something I probably would have done it. As it stands, he didn't. I smiled sideways at him like I would have if I wasn't totally freaked out. Then I called campus security when I was sure he was out of earshot. He came past on his bike when I was on the phone... I talked about the weather.

[jks289]

I've been in many situations involving guns. They're not that scary. Do we have any evidence that guns were put in anyones face? All it said was that they walked in with guns, and told people to get down. Actually, I'd bet that the robbers stayed as far away from the people in the bank as they could, lest the situation degrade.

You're completely mis-interpreting the event. Was it scary? Sure. Violent? Absolutely not...

Okay...I'm not talking about that time you and your brother played cowboys and indians. Unless you are Hancock or Clark Kent I have a feeling you would urinate yourself (or at least sprinkle a bit) if a stranger put a gun in your face and you had no idea if they intended to pull the trigger or not.

You're right though, I'm sure that this guy (whos name I have no f'n idea of right now) and his posse strolled into the bank with their weapons pointed in the air and prob had the safety engaged or even a gun-lock on their pistols. How would they stay away from the people in the bank? They had to gain access to the drawers, vault, etc.

GatorTim, multiple times on this thread you have made assumptions that other posters and their loved ones have not been victims of violent crime. I'd point out that often times people whose lives have actually been impacted by real violence, have a more nuanced understanding of crime, criminals, and justice served. You know little about the lives of the people who are writing here, and I'd thank you to not assume you someone how have a deeper understanding of violence. It's offensive to the unfortunate people in this thread who don't have the luxury of your ignorance.

[GATORTIM]

Was there threat of violence, because I haven't seen any. It's one thing to imply threat of violence, but it's another to actively threaten it. As far as I can tell, he had no intention of using force, but just used an implied threat to his advantage. It's the same thing as holding someone up with a gun shaped object in your pocket, or a fake bomb threat. Are those violent too? There's never an actual threat there, but they use the implied threat to achieve their goals.

I'm sure if he didn't say "I'm going to blow your $%&* head off if you try to stop me" then there was at least a perceived threat. However, I'm willing to bet there was a threat of violence. Do you really think he is going to recite verbatim what went down in the bank after he has done his time and is seeking admission to law school?

There's a difference between a perceived threat and an actual threat. I can perceive your driving as threatening, but if there's no intent to threaten, and very little actual threat, does that make you a violent driver?

It depends if your definition of violence is omnipresent or in the mind of the victim