165 / 3.87 Chances at T14 + UCLA + USC Forum

[glacierfrost]

I'm trying to determine if I should take the LSAT for a 3rd time or just apply in the next cycle and hope for the best. LSP has me at "Consider" for a lot of schools but I wanted to see what you guys thought instead. Will I get in? Here's my information:

165 (2nd score, 1st time scored 158)
3.87 (Phi Beta Kappa)

Asian-American, went to a good public university, average LOR's, decent PS, and some good softs including starting up a profitable business, a popular student magazine on campus, and other leadership and campus experience. I would be sending out my applications the first day it was available.

Chances at:

Berkeley
Pennsylvania
Michigan
Northwestern
Virginia
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA
USC

I should also add that I applied during the 2008-2009 cycle with my then stats of 158 and 3.83 GPA and the same softs as I have now. Here's how I did last time

Accepted: UC Davis, Illinois, Bloomington, Boulder, George Mason,
Waitlisted: Virginia, Arizona
Rejected: Berkeley, UC Hastings (with ED), UCLA, Georgia

Many thanks in advance! I hope I don't have to do the LSAT a 3rd time, I think I could have done better on it (took December 2009) but if I don't have to I won't.

[vespertiliovir]

So before I say anything, you're applying for the 2010-2011 cycle?

[Dignan]

Berkeley: you never know, but unlikely
Pennsylvania: no
Michigan: no
Northwestern: no
Virginia: no (unless you're a Virginia resident, in which case you have an outside chance)
Cornell: probably not, but not impossible
Georgetown: no
UCLA: maybe
USC: maybe

An extra 3-5 points on the LSAT would do you a world of good. I'd take it again.

[ihatelaw]

retake the LSAT in June. as someone else mentioned, 3 - 5 points extra will make a world of difference. with that gpa + a 169, for example, stanford becomes a possibility.


Since you seem to be ready to apply now, you should have no problem sending applications out ASAP in the 2010 cycle. Early applications plus a slight boost to your LSAT and most of the t14 becomes a possibility.

[glacierfrost]

Yes I plan to apply for 2010-2011 cycle. If I were to take it a 3rd time would that bode negatively if I only improve 3 points or so?

[Ragged]

Yes I plan to apply for 2010-2011 cycle. If I were to take it a 3rd time would that bode negatively if I only improve 3 points or so?

if you think you can improve by 3 points by all means retake cuz 3 points is a total game changer for admissions

[Dignan]

Yes I plan to apply for 2010-2011 cycle. If I were to take it a 3rd time would that bode negatively if I only improve 3 points or so?

Nope. With the possible exception of the very top schools (i.e., Harvard), schools don't seem to hold retakes against an applicant. Law school admissions is almost purely a numbers game. Although it's better to score a 168 on your first try, it won't really hurt you to land that score on your third try. Let me put it this way: assuming that you do score a 168, your 158/165/168 will, at the vast majority of law schools, go farther than a single 167. I actually think it's unfair, but that's the way it is.

[glacierfrost]

True. Why would you say that the 158/165/168 would go farther than a 167? I feel like law schools would look on the 3 scores more negatively since they will average them even though they technically "take the higher score".

As for the numbers game, I guess the only reason I ask is because based off of my last cycle a lot of my admitted schools were also at "Considers" or "Weak Considers".

[ihatelaw]

True. Why would you say that the 158/165/168 would go farther than a 167? I feel like law schools would look on the 3 scores more negatively since they will average them even though they technically "take the higher score".

As for the numbers game, I guess the only reason I ask is because based off of my last cycle a lot of my admitted schools were also at "Considers" or "Weak Considers".

even the best schools dont generally average. they say that they may but it makes no sense for them to do that when the 158/165/168 will help their ranking more than the 167.

also, if you score 158 - 165 - 168, the 158 seems like it would be discarded because of how large the difference is. if anything the 165 + 168 will be averaged. NYU, Berkeley, CLS, UChicago admissions offices all told me over the phone that as long as there is a large different 5 - 7 + points then the lower score isnt even looked at it.

[glacierfrost]

What I mean by average is, for the purposes of your application for admission they will consider your averaged scores, but if they take you then of course they will still just report the highest scores.

But I'm glad to hear that 3rd scores seem to be okay.