OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[introversional]

You must not be married, with children.

RC fail.

What is the point of the bolded if not to indicate that my advice is given from a perspective that is either not helpful, or not fully cognizant of the situation. It is a put down, and an insult... and if you had merely phrased it as a question it would have been neither.

It was a joke, you paranoid schizo, and did you happen to read the "not saying I don't agree" part? What a DOUCHE. Are you new to internets?

[firemed]

I just turned 59 (yesterday) and I plan on starting in either September 2011 or January 2012. I've always
wanted to go to law school and figue that I have all of the choldish BS out of my system. Many people have
said don't do it. You're too old. You'll never find a job. If I rolled over and played dead everytime someone
said I couldn't do anything, I would never have accomplished anything. People may think I'm crazy, oh well !
Great things are rarely done by reasonable, sane people. Many of the kiddies on this board have taken cheap shots
at us non-trads. To them I say EAT SHIT ! Talk to me when you start shaving ! They will get their asses handed
to them in court. Most won't go to a T14 law school or work for BIG LAW. They are IMHO chasing an illusion and
will probably ending teachin shop in Fort Wayne. We non-trads usually are more disciplined and focused and from what
I've seen make the best lawyers. I know this will start a shitstorm with the traditional students. Bring it on ! Yes, we
non treads do need this.

Welcome tex. Nice to meet you. Inspiring to see someone your age taking this on. Reminds me I am still relatively young...

It think all of us non-trads will have some advantages to go with our disadvantages... and it will certainly be an amazing new adventure for all of us.

[rinkrat19]

i just hate the idea of dealing with tenants and the possibility of broken leases, etc from across the country. but reality dictates that we may well have to rent....so be it...something always works out!!

and i'm all about NOT giving unsolicited advice!

There are such things as rental management companies. Obviously they charge a fee, but it might be worth the reduced hassle. I haven't started looking into it yet since I'm still a year out.

My condo complex doesn't allow us to rent our units with leases, only month-to-month. I guess it's to discourage the number of renters so it doesn't just turn into yet another apartment complex, but it's not very reassuring to know that my (hypothetical future) renters can just walk out at the end of the month and I'll have to find new renters on short notice.

[introversional]

I just turned 59 (yesterday) and I plan on starting in either September 2011 or January 2012. I've always
wanted to go to law school and figue that I have all of the choldish BS out of my system. Many people have
said don't do it. You're too old. You'll never find a job. If I rolled over and played dead everytime someone
said I couldn't do anything, I would never have accomplished anything. People may think I'm crazy, oh well !
Great things are rarely done by reasonable, sane people. Many of the kiddies on this board have taken cheap shots
at us non-trads. To them I say EAT SHIT ! Talk to me when you start shaving ! They will get their asses handed
to them in court. Most won't go to a T14 law school or work for BIG LAW. They are IMHO chasing an illusion and
will probably ending teachin shop in Fort Wayne. We non-trads usually are more disciplined and focused and from what
I've seen make the best lawyers. I know this will start a shitstorm with the traditional students. Bring it on ! Yes, we
non treads do need this.

Welcome tex. Nice to meet you. Inspiring to see someone your age taking this on. Reminds me I am still relatively young...

It think all of us non-trads will have some advantages to go with our disadvantages... and it will certainly be an amazing new adventure for all of us.

Whoa, whoa, "reminds me I am still relatively young?" What are you implying here? How dare you! Lol.

[paratactical]

I think it's pretty hilarious that firemed, probably one of the nicest people on TLS, got called a douche ITT.

[firemed]

You must not be married, with children.

RC fail.

What is the point of the bolded if not to indicate that my advice is given from a perspective that is either not helpful, or not fully cognizant of the situation. It is a put down, and an insult... and if you had merely phrased it as a question it would have been neither.

It was a joke, you paranoid schizo, and did you happen to read the "not saying I don't agree" part? What a DOUCHE. Are you new to internets?

Apparently you are new to the internets, or you would know that it is best to indicate one is joking via a smiley. Like this: , or this: , or this: , or even this: JK!

It is cute that you are getting mad about this . An insult is still an insult, and I called you on it. You could have simply apologized. But whatever, I am going back to flooring now.

Also, not new to internets. BTW, the new term is DOUCHENOZZLE. It's more fun.

[introversional]

[texaslawyer]

OLD PEOPLE RULE !

[firemed]

I think it's pretty hilarious that firemed, probably one of the nicest people on TLS, got called a douche ITT.

I don't know. It had to happen sometime... in a way it is like a compliment or something.

Am I like the rest of TLS now? Can I be part of the mean people group of COOL KIDS????

I mean, I got called a douche, isn't that the requirement to get in?

[kalvano]

I would say that any advice that involves prolonged absences from the family is the wrong advice.

However, giving such advice does not make one a douche. That takes extra effort.

[paratactical]

I think it's pretty hilarious that firemed, probably one of the nicest people on TLS, got called a douche ITT.

I don't know. It had to happen sometime... in a way it is like a compliment or something.

Am I like the rest of TLS now? Can I be part of the mean people group of COOL KIDS????

I mean, I got called a douche, isn't that the requirement to get in?

You were already cool, sugartits.

[homestyle28]

I think it's pretty hilarious that firemed, probably one of the nicest people on TLS, got called a douche ITT.

Sometimes us old's get cantankerous, usually means we need a snack/nap/poop.

[firemed]

I would say that any advice that involves prolonged absences from the family is the wrong advice.

However, giving such advice does not make one a douche. That takes extra effort.

I don't know. Spending a year away from my wife and kiddo to attend NU, or even the full two years, I would do it. It would blow, it would not be optimal, but I would do it.

It really looks to me like either way his wife might have to try to find a new job though. Also, could she put in for a leave of absence maybe?

[firemed]

You were already cool, sugartits.

I love you.

[firemed]

I think it's pretty hilarious that firemed, probably one of the nicest people on TLS, got called a douche ITT.

Sometimes us old's get cantankerous, usually means we need a snack/nap/poop.

I had my snack.... don't have time for a nap.... where's my metamuesel?


Okay... really going to do floors now...

[kalvano]

I would say that any advice that involves prolonged absences from the family is the wrong advice.

However, giving such advice does not make one a douche. That takes extra effort.

I don't know. Spending a year away from my wife and kiddo to attend NU, or even the full two years, I would do it. It would blow, it would not be optimal, but I would do it.

It really looks to me like either way his wife might have to try to find a new job though. Also, could she put in for a leave of absence maybe?

Stop being a douche.

[texaslawyer]

I just turned 59 (yesterday) and I plan on starting in either September 2011 or January 2012. I've always
wanted to go to law school and figue that I have all of the choldish BS out of my system. Many people have
said don't do it. You're too old. You'll never find a job. If I rolled over and played dead everytime someone
said I couldn't do anything, I would never have accomplished anything. People may think I'm crazy, oh well !
Great things are rarely done by reasonable, sane people. Many of the kiddies on this board have taken cheap shots
at us non-trads. To them I say EAT SHIT ! Talk to me when you start shaving ! They will get their asses handed
to them in court. Most won't go to a T14 law school or work for BIG LAW. They are IMHO chasing an illusion and
will probably ending teachin shop in Fort Wayne. We non-trads usually are more disciplined and focused and from what
I've seen make the best lawyers. I know this will start a shitstorm with the traditional students. Bring it on ! Yes, we
non treads do need this.

Welcome tex. Nice to meet you. Inspiring to see someone your age taking this on. Reminds me I am still relatively young...

It think all of us non-trads will have some advantages to go with our disadvantages... and it will certainly be an amazing new adventure for all of us.

Whoa, whoa, "reminds me I am still relatively young?" What are you implying here? How dare you! Lol.

It will be a challenge.

[bedefan]

Looking for some sage advice...

I'm in the bizarre situation of choosing between 2 "full rides": Michigan (a "Darrow") and Harvard (an "OMG you're so poor").

My wife and I are, in the words of Beatrix Potter, "improvident and cheerful." I'm an artist who's paid the bills by adjuncting (have an MFA) and working with poor people, including at a legal services org for 3 years. Got two kids aged 3 & 1, want to end up with four to seven total and wife is 30, so we need to stay, ahem, relatively busy. No assets & no debt. I'm 110% going into public interest law and will probably be pulling in well below 50k when I start working. My wife won't be working while I'm in LS so we'll still end up with a ton of debt (90k Mich v. 180k H-bomb) from cost of living.

Here's the deal: Basically the choice is:
more-liquid-cash-during-LS-with-more-flexibility-about-repaying-it-and-greater-career-flexibility (Harvard)
versus
less-debt-and-a-more-enjoyable-town-to-live-in-for-three-years-plus-a-chiller-LS-atmosphere (Michigan)

Other factors: we want to settle somewhere in the Upper Midwest or Great Plains, not in a big city. Also I do like teaching and could see myself teaching legal writing at some point down the road.

Any ideas?

[kopper]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

AIB, I am currently 1L at a similarly ranked school in a major city with a local T-14. I did not have your options when applying because I did not see how I could take 3 years of incurring significant debt and no income. I have two young kids and my wife is a full-time parent. Here are some things I have learned after 7 months of law school experience as an evening student with a full-time career:

Pros
1. Financially being able to support my family
2. So far, no school loans and hope to grad w/ zero debt
2. Gaining solid work experience while in law school and experiencing very long days (start at 8am and get home at 12am)

Cons
1. I found full-time career workers are in the minority at my school so you are competing with full-time students in a part-time program and others who may work but not very demanding jobs
2. I don't know this to be true but I would venture to say going to law school full-time is less challenging than work a demanding job and going to law school in the evening; I personally enjoy it however if I did not have to work I would not
3. The full experience of law school is really geared and designed for a full-time student - such as Law Review, Moot Court, Clinicals, etc...; they attempt to accommodate evening students but you miss a good part of the experience being part-time
4. Internships/Employment - my colleagues are going after summer internships and gaining experience and connections while I continue to work in a non-related position for a Fortune 100 company

We took 11 credits the fall semester and the full time program took 14. The full time students are not permitted to work. So, there is a 3 credit difference between the two programs and that permits you to work 40+ hours a week. If I didn't have to work I'd trade the 40+ hours and ass whoopings for 3 credits.

My plan assumes I will remain with my current employer until I graduate (4 years now almost 3 years). But there are no guarantees and my employment may end. I'm burning it on both sides and hoping I don't get caught in the middle. So I hope to be able to get to the end with no debt but there are no guarantees that will happen and 4 years is a long time for things to happen. I am also considering an internship the summer after my 3rd year that would require me to leave my job. Maybe I could return after the internship but I highly doubt it. I would hope to leverage some law related work during my 4th year but have no idea the likelidhood of that. There is a strong possibility I am not working one of those 4 years and my financial responsibilities extend beyond law school tuition.

When I first read your post I thought you had a tough decision but after writing about my experience I am envious. I am not sure how you pass up and opportunity to go to Northwestern. And I certainly don't know how you do that with a "substantial" scholarship and accelerated program. That reminds me you start earning lawyer money in two years at NW vs. four years at Kent and your opportunities across the board will be much better because (1) its NW and (2) you are a full-time vs. part-time student. Congratulations and enjoy Northwestern!

[kalvano]

Don't turn down Harvard.

[kopper]

I just turned 59 (yesterday) and I plan on starting in either September 2011 or January 2012. I've always
wanted to go to law school and figue that I have all of the choldish BS out of my system. Many people have
said don't do it. You're too old. You'll never find a job. If I rolled over and played dead everytime someone
said I couldn't do anything, I would never have accomplished anything. People may think I'm crazy, oh well !
Great things are rarely done by reasonable, sane people. Many of the kiddies on this board have taken cheap shots
at us non-trads. To them I say EAT SHIT ! Talk to me when you start shaving ! They will get their asses handed
to them in court. Most won't go to a T14 law school or work for BIG LAW. They are IMHO chasing an illusion and
will probably ending teachin shop in Fort Wayne. We non-trads usually are more disciplined and focused and from what
I've seen make the best lawyers. I know this will start a shitstorm with the traditional students. Bring it on ! Yes, we
non treads do need this.

Welcome tex. Nice to meet you. Inspiring to see someone your age taking this on. Reminds me I am still relatively young...

It think all of us non-trads will have some advantages to go with our disadvantages... and it will certainly be an amazing new adventure for all of us.

Whoa, whoa, "reminds me I am still relatively young?" What are you implying here? How dare you! Lol.

It will be a challenge.

YOU ARE THE MAN! As Larry Fishbourne once said (in a movie)..."its all about Atty TUDE!)

[firemed]

It will be a challenge.

Life is boring and pointless without challenges.


Now to remove some molding.

[rinkrat19]

Looking for some sage advice...

I'm in the bizarre situation of choosing between 2 "full rides": Michigan (a "Darrow") and Harvard (an "OMG you're so poor").

My wife and I are, in the words of Beatrix Potter, "improvident and cheerful." I'm an artist who's paid the bills by adjuncting (have an MFA) and working with poor people, including at a legal services org for 3 years. Got two kids aged 3 & 1, want to end up with four to seven total and wife is 30, so we need to stay, ahem, relatively busy. No assets & no debt. I'm 110% going into public interest law and will probably be pulling in well below 50k when I start working. My wife won't be working while I'm in LS so we'll still end up with a ton of debt (90k Mich v. 180k H-bomb) from cost of living.

Here's the deal: Basically the choice is:
more-liquid-cash-during-LS-with-more-flexibility-about-repaying-it-and-greater-career-flexibility (Harvard)
versus
less-debt-and-a-more-enjoyable-town-to-live-in-for-three-years-plus-a-chiller-LS-atmosphere (Michigan)

Other factors: we want to settle somewhere in the Upper Midwest or Great Plains, not in a big city. Also I do like teaching and could see myself teaching legal writing at some point down the road.

Any ideas?

The answer is always Harvard. (Except when it's Yale.)

But seriously. UMich will give you great prospects, especially midwest, but if you really do want academia, HLS does have a significant advantage. As for debt, if you are dead-set on staying in PI, it doesn't really matter what your total is because it'll all go away in 10 years.

4 to 7 kids?? As the posessor of a uterus myself, I feel for your wife. (Not to mention that feeding and clothing that many people on a PI salary sounds less than fun.)

[firemed]

Don't turn down Harvard.

+1

90K or 180K... either way it is a huge amount of debt. But going to H you gain more geographic flexibility, and about 10 times the chance to go into academia.

Also... why the hell do you want 7 kids? I have one and want another... and then I am getting snipped!

[rinkrat19]

Also... why the hell do you want 7 kids?

He's pitching a reality show to TLC?

As an only child, I would've liked one sibling to play with when the grownups were busy. Any more than that just seemed excessive.