OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[firemed]

firemed--they are demanding to say the least. in less than one month of living there, they've managed to make the stove no longer work......
and there were too many holes in the wall, and there was a "paint smell" in the garage, and they want another garage door opener even though we told them we only had one....3 weeks they've been there!!!
as long as they pay the damned rent i guess i'll live with it...

Being a landlord is the sucks. Sorry hippie.

ETA: tell them the paint smell is a bonus, and most landlords would charge extra for that.

[oldhippie]

yeah, i explained that there was a paint smell in several rooms BECAUSE WE JUST PAINTED THEM!!!!!!!

[firemed]

yeah, i explained that there was a paint smell in several rooms BECAUSE WE JUST PAINTED THEM!!!!!!!

Are you thinking again? I explained to you as a medical professional that that was bad for your mental health, right?

[oldhippie]

yeah, i explained that there was a paint smell in several rooms BECAUSE WE JUST PAINTED THEM!!!!!!!

Are you thinking again? I explained to you as a medical professional that that was bad for your mental health, right?

i know....i've really gotta break that habit...

[Lisi]

Firemed – I didn’t really consider scholarship money before applying because I wasn’t aware how much of it is handed out. (I thought there were named scholarships and not much more than that.) So, I only have a few apps still out – basically all reach or mid-range schools.

Spondee – Thank you SO MUCH for your very informative post! It’s really nice to hear your perspective, and I really appreciate your advice, which sounds excellent and very well-reasoned. You’re right, I have done a lot of writing for my PhD (the dissertation alone was 375 pages). I was under the impression that most law students were very good writers. If that is not the case, it definitely makes sense for me to try really hard to get onto a good journal. Do you have a PhD? Thanks for the warning about responding to “why not academia?” questions. I would not have thought to prepare a great answer for that because I guess I assumed it would be obvious that I didn’t want to be an academic since I didn’t stay in academia (went to law school instead). But you’re probably right. In fact, I feel I’ll be fielding that question for the rest of my life at this point, so I better have a couple good responses prepared. It's complicated, too, because I can see myself wanting to retain some ties to academia without devoting my entire career to it.

[firemed]

Firemed – I didn’t really consider scholarship money before applying because I wasn’t aware how much of it is handed out. (I thought there were named scholarships and not much more than that.) So, I only have a few apps still out – basically all reach or mid-range schools.

You still have time to leverage. For instance: Get into midrange school. Hopefully get scholly. If not, email them and explain you have gotten into NYU and cost of attendance is a huge factor in your choice. Then they probably give you scholly. Take that scholly and email NYU. Explain to them you would much rather attend their institution, but cost of attendance is a huge factor in your decision. Hopefully they will give you a scholly.

Your best bet, actually, is to wait just a little bit (like, two weeks or so) and get as many acceptances as you can before you start this. Take schollys at peer ranked schools and use them to get schollys at schools only slightly higher up the food chain. Repeat until you get a scholly at your highest admit that isn't NYU, and use that one to negotiate at NYU.

Remember that in the next 2-4 weeks a whole lot of scholarship money is opening up as people put down deposits. So while you are late in the game, it isn't over yet.

If you are polite about it your really have nothing to lose at this point by simply asking for money in a reasonable manner.

[Sandrew]

I just discovered this thread and thought I'd say a quick hello and thank you. I'm 31 and will be newly married heading to law school in the fall, likely at GULC, NYU, or Columbia.

Reading through some other threads, it's easy to focus on the apparent 'handicaps' of being a non-traditional law student. For me, one such handicap is my lack of geographic mobility. My fiance has her own professional goals that I want to support, which ties me to either NY or DC (or a reasonable commute thereto) or, possibly, CT. While there are a lot of great schools in those areas, and I've been fortunate to be admitted by three of them, having more options in the T14 would have been nice.

But these concerns are small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Reading this thread has been a refreshing reminder of how lucky I am (and we all are) to have the chance to make a career change, and how happy I am to have such an opportunity and a supportive spouse-to-be. Older or not, I'm pretty sanguine about my future career prospects. While I'm not so naive to think that I'll be entitled the job of my choosing, I am confident that with a bit of hard work and a JD, a challenging new career is on the horizon.

I'm enjoying reading through the thoughtful comments here. It's comforting to see others with similar concerns, and I wish you all the best.

[sbalive]

I haven't visited this thread in a while so thought I'd pop in and root for us oldsters (the fact that some of the posters here are younger than me makes me sad). So excited to see the fellow PhDs!

re: scholarships -- I wish I'd known about negotiation before applying, since there are definitely law schools I didn't bother sending out apps to that would have been useful even if I had no intention of going. That said, even a few schools can give some leverage if you're lucky, so it's worth a shot.

re: why law v. academia? I did get the "why law" question a lot. To be honest, I didn't get anyone explicitly thinking of me as a flight risk (is that because I'm not on law review? or maybe I got some rejections for that reason without them saying so? probably the latter). That said, everyone asks "why law," so you may as well get used to answering it.

My advice for academics is that we're trained to have a neat little explanation for why we do things that we learn when we're doing our thesis in which we contextualize our actions in this neat little package that relates to our field and society in general, etc. You don't need to do that in answering "why law." Unless you do want to go into academia, no one expects you to have an academic reason for going to law school.

Honestly, all I say is that I thought it would be a lot of fun and something I'd be good at, and I always sort of wanted to try it and figured I'd take the opportunity to go for it. Nothing negative about what I was doing -- which I did love, just not as much as I thought I'd love law, and not as much as I do love law now as a student. Also, I wanted the flexibility to try different kinds of professional life (work for a large organization, in a small org, start something on my own) in a way that I couldn't do in academia, and mobility was huge -- it's very hard to live where you want to live as an academic, but it's really easy if you graduate from a highly-ranked law school. This seems to work in every interview.

re: law review... You'll figure this out once you get in and start to figure out where you see yourself as a law student and what you want to do when you graduate. It'll be an easier decision after 1L. Also, do get involved in student orgs, since it's a great way to get to know other students especially if you'd rather be with your family than at bar review. Don't get too caught up in grade-stress -- those are the times when I make a point to tell myself that I'm older and wiser.

[kalvano]

I was under the impression that most law students were very good writers. If that is not the case, it definitely makes sense for me to try really hard to get onto a good journal.

"Good" writing and legal writing are mutually exclusive.

[firemed]

I was under the impression that most law students were very good writers. If that is not the case, it definitely makes sense for me to try really hard to get onto a good journal.

"Good" writing and legal writing are mutually exclusive.

And: HELLO to Sandrew! Welcome!

[ArghItsBlarg]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

[introversional]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

Ordinarily this sounds like NU no brainer, but given your family obligations, and how much of a burden/strain the NU route might create, I'd say Kent is sounding better.

You can always do Kent for a year while your wife tries to find a decent job within her field. If she finds something, try transfering next year. If not, I'd do Kent and keep working.

Question: Can you defer your acceptance to NU, while also discussing your plan of potentially doing your 1L at Kent? Is there any way to guarantee (at least somewhat) your being able to transfer to NU? (assuming you do very well w/Kent 1L)

[trudat15]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

Not knowing much about your situation, I would imagine a NU degree goes a lot further than a Chicago Kent one. With the ability to finish in 2 years with a substantial scholarship, and I'd think it's a no brainer.

[firemed]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

Ordinarily this sounds like NU no brainer, but given your family obligations, and how much of a burden/strain the NU route might create, I'd say Kent is sounding better.

You can always do Kent for a year while your wife tries to find a decent job within her field. If she finds something, try transfering next year. If not, I'd do Kent and keep working.

Question: Can you defer your acceptance to NU, while also discussing your plan of potentially doing your 1L at Kent? Is there any way to guarantee (at least somewhat) your being able to transfer to NU? (assuming you do very well w/Kent 1L)

I am sorry... but given that Kent graduates are talking something like a 25% employment rate at graduation... I just wouldn't take that route.

Also, there is ZERO way to guarantee a transfer. First off, Kent is so much lower than NU that they will have people from better schools trying to transfer. Secondly (and more importantly) because of the way law school is curved the only thing he can guarantee is that he will be at median. There is NO way to predict anything else with ANY certainty.

Look... a little over two years of full time school with a scholly from a T14 VS. half time school, full time work, and just as little chance of a job for wifey (they are both in Chicago, right?)... I say take NU.

Seriously, worst case scenario is that your wife simply keeps her job until she finds a new one. You spend 6 months or a year apart... but wow, you graduated from NU in two years, and have a much better shot at an amazing job.

TWO YEARS AT A T14 WITH A SCHOLLY IS TOO GOOD A DEAL TO PASS UP. Hell, you even pay less because it is only for two years tuition.

As for the insurance, either your wife can provide (I forget if this is an option), or Illinois will provide, or student loans will provide.

In my mind I would NEVER take Kent over NU... even if we were talking sticker.

[homestyle28]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

I recognize the wife + kids details complicates things significantly. But the realities of Kent+ full time work are not to be overlooked. Some schools go to the lengths or prohibiting more than 15 hours/week during 1L b/c of how hard it is to be successful working + LS student. Just something besides the pure financials to think about.

[firemed]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

I recognize the wife + kids details complicates things significantly. But the realities of Kent+ full time work are not to be overlooked. Some schools go to the lengths or prohibiting more than 15 hours/week during 1L b/c of how hard it is to be successful working + LS student. Just something besides the pure financials to think about.

He would be in the PT program at Kent I believe.

But I agree with you that costs are not purely financial. Working full time and taking LS part time would be way harder on your family than NU IMO.

[introversional]

So Northwestern just offered me a substantial scholarship, with no mention of GPA requirements at all, if I switch to their Accelerated JD program. Classes would start mid-May. My problem just got very, VERY concrete. It's NU and quitting my job, or Chicago Kent at 75% scholarship and also working full time.

My wife will really have to find a job in her non-existent market, or decide to go outside of her market. Until then, we'll have to have loans in lieu of income. Additionally, we'll have to go on NU's super-expensive family policy unless I can get my kids on the Illinois kid's insurance, which I haven't yet figured out. I've got less than 10 days to make a decision.

Ordinarily this sounds like NU no brainer, but given your family obligations, and how much of a burden/strain the NU route might create, I'd say Kent is sounding better.

You can always do Kent for a year while your wife tries to find a decent job within her field. If she finds something, try transfering next year. If not, I'd do Kent and keep working.

Question: Can you defer your acceptance to NU, while also discussing your plan of potentially doing your 1L at Kent? Is there any way to guarantee (at least somewhat) your being able to transfer to NU? (assuming you do very well w/Kent 1L)

I am sorry... but given that Kent graduates are talking something like a 25% employment rate at graduation... I just wouldn't take that route.

Also, there is ZERO way to guarantee a transfer. First off, Kent is so much lower than NU that they will have people from better schools trying to transfer. Secondly (and more importantly) because of the way law school is curved the only thing he can guarantee is that he will be at median. There is NO way to predict anything else with ANY certainty.

Look... a little over two years of full time school with a scholly from a T14 VS. half time school, full time work, and just as little chance of a job for wifey (they are both in Chicago, right?)... I say take NU.

Seriously, worst case scenario is that your wife simply keeps her job until she finds a new one. You spend 6 months or a year apart... but wow, you graduated from NU in two years, and have a much better shot at an amazing job.

TWO YEARS AT A T14 WITH A SCHOLLY IS TOO GOOD A DEAL TO PASS UP. Hell, you even pay less because it is only for two years tuition.

As for the insurance, either your wife can provide (I forget if this is an option), or Illinois will provide, or student loans will provide.

In my mind I would NEVER take Kent over NU... even if we were talking sticker.

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

[firemed]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

[introversional]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

Firemed, I'm not at all interested in your life, you seem like a bit of a douche.

[homestyle28]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

Whoa, easier their chief...I actually think Argh has a gig in the chicago area currently, I forget if it's law related...There's a chance I'm confusing him with other Chicago bound oldies who post here occasionally.

[firemed]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

Firemed, I'm not at all interested in your life, you seem like a bit of a douche.

You come on here, give what is- IMO- bad advice, and then tell me my advice is bad because I am not married and don't have kids- without asking- and then, when I tell you that was a dumbass move, call ME a douche.

Good luck with that.

[introversional]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

Firemed, I'm not at all interested in your life, you seem like a bit of a douche.

You come on here, give what is- IMO- bad advice, and then tell me my advice is bad because I am not married and don't have kids- without asking- and then, when I tell you that was a dumbass move, call ME a douche.

Good luck with that.

RC fail.

[texaslawyer]

I just turned 59 (yesterday) and I plan on starting in either September 2011 or January 2012. I've always
wanted to go to law school and figue that I have all of the choldish BS out of my system. Many people have
said don't do it. You're too old. You'll never find a job. If I rolled over and played dead everytime someone
said I couldn't do anything, I would never have accomplished anything. People may think I'm crazy, oh well !
Great things are rarely done by reasonable, sane people. Many of the kiddies on this board have taken cheap shots
at us non-trads. To them I say EAT SHIT ! Talk to me when you start shaving ! They will get their asses handed
to them in court. Most won't go to a T14 law school or work for BIG LAW. They are IMHO chasing an illusion and
will probably ending teachin shop in Fort Wayne. We non-trads usually are more disciplined and focused and from what
I've seen make the best lawyers. I know this will start a shitstorm with the traditional students. Bring it on ! Yes, we
non treads do need this.

[firemed]

You must not be married, with children.

With that said, not saying I don't agree... and I'd try hypnotism to convince your wife that NU is a better idea.

You must make dumbass assumptions without asking first a lot too.

Whoa, easier their chief...I actually think Argh has a gig in the chicago area currently, I forget if it's law related...There's a chance I'm confusing him with other Chicago bound oldies who post here occasionally.

He does have a good gig if I remember correctly. But I don't believe his wife does yet. She has a good one near where they live. I think he was thinking about commuting or something. Either way though he is going to have to go to Chicago every day for school... so it shouldn't really matter unless I am forgetting something.

[firemed]

You must not be married, with children.

RC fail.

What is the point of the bolded if not to indicate that my advice is given from a perspective that is either not helpful, or not fully cognizant of the situation. It is a put down, and an insult... and if you had merely phrased it as a question it would have been neither.