Latest employment data Forum

[Moneytrees]

I vote against the T18 suggestion, which could have only have been put forth by a WUSTL apologist.

Not that I'm not biased or anything, but average COA probably should be a factor in the rankings. WUSTL was probably the cheapest T1 option for most of its students.

Of course, that should count for something I suppose. But until it decreases its size substantially, it's going to be behind USC, ND, and probably BU and BC, in terms of outcomes.

It was pretty much even with USC, BC, and ND last year in terms of BL+FC, and was ahead of BU. It's also way more generous with aid than any of those schools, and frankly debt at graduation should be a major factor in grading outcomes. It's also ahead of all of those schools this year in FTLTBR-SJF (pending BU and BC 2014 reports). WUSTL also has been reducing 1L class sizes regularly since C/O 2013 (notwithstanding a reportedly unanticipated increase for c/o 2017), but has also been taking in a lot of transfers.

True but both BU and BC have reduced class sizes. BU will very likely be ahead of WUSTL for the next few years at least.

[MT Cicero]

Law school funded is in the middle-ish section. You're looking at JD-Advantage jobs, which aren't funded by the law school. Those numbers aren't reflected in the FTLTBR.

I see also that I screwed up because 3 of the LSF jobs are JD-A. I'll update my previous post.

I am looking in the middle section. You took the FTLT Law school funded position and I took ALL of the students employed by the university, which might be wrong (22 - middle section, bottom right box)

Got it. Yeah, but short-term/part-time/all the rest aren't in the 88 number. They are in their own columns. So, comparing apples to apples, you don't subtract the other columns from the FTLTBR jobs.

The 22 threw me off since it happened to be the same and sit right below 88 (and I figured that's what you glanced at for some reason).

*Edit - Just saw your edit and it looks like all's well in the world now (except for Oregon's ability to produce practicing attorneys within a year).

[lawschool1741]

St. Mary's: http://law.stmarytx.edu/careers/employment-statistics/

Not sure if anyone can decipher the data into anything usable...

[starry eyed]

Oregon : http://law.uoregon.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2014.pdf

FTLTBR (no LSF/solos) : 33.7%

FC + BL : 3.8%

How does a state flagship fuck up that bad

[Username123]

Oregon : http://law.uoregon.edu/wp-content/uploa ... of2014.pdf

FTLTBR (no LSF/solos) : 33.7%

FC + BL : 3.8%

How does a state flagship fuck up that bad

33.7% should be 45.1%. Still, not good.

[fuguelaw]

U. of Missouri-Columbia: http://law.missouri.edu/careers/pdf/emp ... ary-14.pdf

[transferror]

St. Mary's: http://law.stmarytx.edu/careers/employment-statistics/

Not sure if anyone can decipher the data into anything usable...

http://law.stmarytx.edu/wp-content/uplo ... duates.pdf

[MikeJD]

Reduced class size yes but they probably took more transfers so therefore they will graduate almost as many.

[Rigo]

St. Mary's? That's a new one.

[Hand]

St. Mary's? That's a new one.

You haven't been paying attention: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=244849

[-dasein-]

Looking forward to those Texas #s

[LET'S GET IT]

I vote against the T18 suggestion, which could have only have been put forth by a WUSTL apologist.

Not that I'm not biased or anything, but average COA probably should be a factor in the rankings. WUSTL was probably the cheapest T1 option for most of its students. WUSTL doesn't have T18 placement, but probably does have T18 value.

This, plus the fact that we place a non-negligible amount of people in several different cities, whereas ND, BU, BC, etc. don't was basically my thinking. WUSTL will fairly often be a viable choice for people with lower T13 options whereas most of the others usually won't be. But if you want to call me an apologist and go T17, go nuts.

[Moneytrees]

T17 makes more sense than T18, but neither is particularly useful. You have the top schools and then you have the good regionals. Vanderbilt, UCLA and UT are perhaps somewhere in between those two categories; WUSTL isn't. Though it deserves credit for being generous in its merit aid policy.

[Mozart Lacrimosa]

0L here. This thread, and the general discourse on TLS has been eye opening for me. You've saved me some serious headaches down the road I think. Thank you all.

[MikeJD]

Looking forward to those Texas #s

see UCLA/Vandy/USC. They're about 40% Big law clerkship and that's where texas will be..

[Winter is Coming]

What the hell is a JD Advantage SFJ?

Reading GTown's disclosure on their SFJs is eye-opening and really strange. Its sad though because when you express things in percentages sometimes we forgot the raw number of people have truly terrible outcomes at some of these schools.

[The Dark Shepard]

What the hell is a JD Advantage SFJ?

Reading GTown's disclosure on their SFJs is eye-opening and really strange. Its sad though because when you express things in percentages sometimes we forgot the raw number of people have truly terrible outcomes at some of these schools.

What is the disclosure?

Also, I don't understand why we are acting as if LSF jobs are worse than people being unemployed period.

[Winter is Coming]

What the hell is a JD Advantage SFJ?

Reading GTown's disclosure on their SFJs is eye-opening and really strange. Its sad though because when you express things in percentages sometimes we forgot the raw number of people have truly terrible outcomes at some of these schools.

What is the disclosure?

Also, I don't understand why we are acting as if LSF jobs are worse than people being unemployed period.

The disclosure lists what the LSF jobs actually are. Some of them are interesting PI org type stuff. But there are ominously people working directly for GULC and even more concerning probably are the people working for the University in general. These people might be working in admin positions making 10 dollars an hour.

It's obviously not worse than actually being unemployed, but the only saving grace to some of these LSF jobs are that they allow someone to gain "experience" (and theoretically make themselves more employable) while searching for a job. A non JD required LSF job (an even JD advantage) most likely doesn't even do that. At that point, it really is just a wholly transparent way to try to game employment numbers, while these people's loan debt balloons from going into repayment.

[rpupkin]

So, what is the deal with CLS and UT? What are they afraid of?

In the case of CLS, I think we can safely assume that it was thrown off guard by the Penn/Cornell numbers. Now, CLS is busy cooking the books in order to preserve the perception that it is the premier law school for NYC big law.

But why the delay for UT? Prediction: UT is holding back because it has a HUGE bl+fc increase. It was waiting for the disappointing GULC/Vandy numbers to come out first before lowering the boom and asserting its dominance. You read it here first.

[timmyd]

I predict UT will be at 45% BL FC. So really, right where its been relative to its peers for sometime. Not a T14 (but close enough to Gtown to make it arguable, especially b/c UT's clerkship numbers will be around 10%), but also not in the same class as schools like WUSTL, ND, BC etc...It's in this class with Vandy, UCLA, and USC. So nothing new really. The only thing interesting about UT is that, I suspect, their clerkship numbers are on par with some lower T14 while big law numbers lag behind somewhat considerably. I am not sure the reason for this other than their dominance of the fifth circuit.

[starry eyed]

UT's #'s won't change much since SMU and UH were pretty much the same as last year

[chuckbass]

UT's #'s won't change much since SMU and UH were pretty much the same

Solid reasoning skills.

[starry eyed]

UT's #'s won't change much since SMU and UH were pretty much the same

Solid reasoning skills.

TX law has no exposure to NYC corp? better?

so far the #'s have been consistent as last year except for school's that send grads primarily to NYC corp

[chuckbass]

UT's #'s won't change much since SMU and UH were pretty much the same

Solid reasoning skills.

TX law has no exposure to NYC corp? better?

But UT sends some kids to NYC, so this may help them.

[BrazilBandit]

After attending their ASW, I wouldn't expect a big change for UT in any category...