RECESSION PANIC MEGAPOST: Bad economy threads go here! Forum

[YCrevolution]

..

[pattymac]

Yesterday in my seminar class, a girl who reviewed an article claimed that "a girl in the top 10% of her class at Stanford Law only receieved job offers as a legal secretary."

That girl was mistaken, and repeating the Sandra Day O'Connor legend. The legend has it that O'Connor was near the very top of her class but the big California firms only offered her secretarial work. She ended up going a much different route than is the norm for a Supreme Court justice, including hanging up a shingle in a rough neighborhood, working for a strip mall center, and things of that nature.

I love it when this happens. An oft repeated story widely circulated through the internet or other means gets repeated by somebody who claims said story occurred to an acquaintance or friend of theirs. Not exactly what happened in this situation but a phenomenon in life that I find amusing.

Haha yes. Had she said Sandra Day O'Connor, something might have clued me in but she literally said "a Stanford grad who recently graduated in the top 10% of her class was only offered legal secretary work" which made me laugh and think of this thread.

[MJS83]

Why is this thread a sticky?

Because otherwise there'd be 20,000 OMG!!!! NO JOBZ! THE SKYZ IS FALLINGGGGG! threads.

Hah, awesome +1

[ravens9111]

First time poster... I came across this blog trying to find some information on admissions for law school. It appears that many of you think this profession may not be what it once was, sort of like the real estate business. I am just wondering, how many of you have passed the Bar Exam and are unemployed? For those of you who are unemployed, have you considered starting your own practice? If not, what is the reason not to start up your own firm? I know the majority want to get the Big Law job, but if that is no longer an option, what are the alternatives? Are any of you considering an MBA while the economy is in the toilet? I would have thought that many lawyers who passed the Bar Exam would want to go on their own. There are many ways to solicit clients. Now is the best time to get into Bankruptcy Law, no? I know attorneys who are making a fortune discharging debt for people who are facing foreclosure.

By the way, the economy is only going to get worse. Forget the record budget deficits, national healthcare, cap and trade (tax), more stimulus, etc. The economy has been inflated with ultra low interest rates which is unsustainable. Just wait for the day when foreign countries start selling Treasuries. That will force rates to go up even more. What will happen when the interest payments on all this debt increases? We will have to print more money to pay off the creditors. We have become the worlds largest debtor. Obamanomics has not worked. The bogus "2 million jobs have been saved or created" are all lies. The only reason unemployment has not continued to go up is because MILLIONS of people have dropped out of the labor force. Those unemployed workers are not longer counted in the unemployment numbers the BLS announces. The true unemployment rate is U6, which is almost 20%!!!!! The only jobs that have been "saved or created" are Government jobs.

[MURPH]

Welcome aboard Ravens, most of the posters here are looking to get onto law school. There are a few lawyers that post here now and again. I think people on TLS (though maybe not this thread in particular) are generally optimistic about our job prospects. People graduating from T14 schools are still able to land jobs that pay above the minimum wage so we will be at an advantage when the economy is in ruins and our Chinese lenders repossess our future.

[CEO]

Does anyone know where to find info on 2009 starting salaries/employment statistics for top 50 law schools compared to 2008 and 2007?

[anonymous_dude]

We're all fucked.

http://www.nalp.org/uploads/PerspectivesonFallRec09.pdf

[ck3]

Just to add a little perspective, I am in my 40's. A lot of things that are now being said about the prospects for legal employment and the prospects for the economy were being said back in the 80's and when Reagan was president. The economy is cyclical. It goes up and it goes down. Even when we have the great depression which lasted more than 10 years you have to keep in mind that your working life is a lot more than 10 or 15 years. Also, if the economy continues to be terrible for the forseeable future, you'd probably still be much better off employment wise with a law degree than with an undergrad degree in history or English. In GA, they are closing schools and laying off teachers. I do agree with the idea of limiting debt but I think a much better way to limit debt is to pay cash for your car to get you from point A to point B and skip the big screen TV and many other consumables that are not neccessities. You need the best education you can get in this and all other economic sitautions.

Also, in the real world, 60K is a great starting salary. Even if you have 120K debt you have to remember that your salary should increase over time from 60K toward 100K. Should, but that is not certain, but I dobt that your job prospects and your economic security is going to be better with a liberal arts degree and little to no debt because most people in that situation are never even going to get to 60K (in today's dollars) over a 20 year period of employment. If you have an engineering degree or a biochemical degree, then that can get you ahead. If you are good in sales, that can get you ahead. If you are not in that situation and you want to get ahead, you really need an advanced degree of some sort and an MBA can also be very expensive and I don't think that offers job prospects as good a law degree.

Be confident in yourselves and be confident in America. The world is probably not ending right now or in the next few years. If it does, you won't have to worry about the debt.

[cupcakess]

...all of us are going to be doing this after we graduate...

This deserves to be on every page of this thread to prevent 0L, 1L, 2L, and 3Ls from killing themselves.

I am doing a public service.

[Dick Whitman]

...all of us are going to be doing this after we graduate...

This deserves to be on every page of this thread to prevent 0L, 1L, 2L, and 3Ls from killing themselves.

I am doing a public service.

This will be me, once a month, making my student loan payment.

[dailygrind]

Personal bankruptcies skyrocket in March.

[1ferret!]

Just interviewed for an internship with a small litigation firm in Los Angeles. Told me that they had at least two bared attorneys holding unpaid internship positions to get some experience under their belts while holding out for real employment. Its bad out there folks, but study hard, make good grades and you will do well.
Not sure how much this holds true for those in the TTTT crowd but FWIW.

[dlac]

To add more fuel to the fire, yesterday I had the pleasure of having lunch with one of my former coworkers. From her I found out two things: 1) Blackened Tilapia at Louise's Trattoria is pretty darn good and 2) Her husband who is a Berkeley grad and was an associate at Paul Hastings was let go along with half of the entire freaking workforce. He is now aiming to be a public defender...

[FreddyBigShot]

So how bad is it people? I plan on being at median at UC Davis. Should I start practicing my career in real estate?

[UnbornWidow]

First time poster... I came across this blog trying to find some information on admissions for law school. It appears that many of you think this profession may not be what it once was, sort of like the real estate business. I am just wondering, how many of you have passed the Bar Exam and are unemployed?

passed the bar and unemployed. Well, except for my 10 dollar an hour job at the call center. But the employee turnover rate there is so high, I doubt I can hold onto that job for too long.

For those of you who are unemployed, have you considered starting your own practice?

Say, that is a BRILLIANT idea! Oh wait. I already tried that. Spent the last of my life savings renting an office with streetside signs at one of the busiest intersections in one of the largest cities in america. 6 months later? 2 calls and 0 dollars income from that office. Should I recount for you how I trolled the halls of the criminal courthouse for clients, all for 0 dollars income, too? No?

I would have thought that many lawyers who passed the Bar Exam would want to go on their own. There are many ways to solicit clients.

Tell me more!

By the way, the economy is only going to get worse. Forget the record budget deficits, national healthcare, cap and trade (tax), more stimulus, etc. The economy has been inflated with ultra low interest rates which is unsustainable. Just wait for the day when foreign countries start selling Treasuries. That will force rates to go up even more. What will happen when the interest payments on all this debt increases? We will have to print more money to pay off the creditors. We have become the worlds largest debtor. Obamanomics has not worked. The bogus "2 million jobs have been saved or created" are all lies. The only reason unemployment has not continued to go up is because MILLIONS of people have dropped out of the labor force. Those unemployed workers are not longer counted in the unemployment numbers the BLS announces. The true unemployment rate is U6, which is almost 20%!!!!! The only jobs that have been "saved or created" are Government jobs.

Wow. You sure are smart. You oughta be on one of them there sunday morning tv shows!

[burvowski]

I wonder if your attitude has anything to do with your not getting hired.

[burvowski]

Who's GS?

Goldman Sachs. Investment banking firm that made mortgage-backed securities, sold them for a premium, and then right away sold them short. On top of that recently their CEO Blankfein stated that they are bankers "doing god's work."

To be fair, that statement was made tongue-in-cheek.

[Unitas]

Who's GS?

Goldman Sachs. Investment banking firm that made mortgage-backed securities, sold them for a premium, and then right away sold them short. On top of that recently their CEO Blankfein stated that they are bankers "doing god's work."

To be fair, that statement was made tongue-in-cheek.

What, did you see when he said it?? He meant it and his attitude before the senate confirms his overall attitude.

[Rocketman11]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. T14 grads with baller internships can't find work. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ESixthNews

[Always Credited]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. T14 grads with baller internships can't find work. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ESixthNews

damn! and I was only doing this because mom told me I was special. fuck it, I guess.

[Rocketman11]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. T14 grads with baller internships can't find work. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ESixthNews

damn! and I was only doing this because mom told me I was special. fuck it, I guess.

I think people are doing it thinking they will not be caught up in the casualty list. After all, why would you spend 150,000 on an education that won't land you a job? Just because you like to learn about law?

[Matthies]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. T14 grads with baller internships can't find work. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ESixthNews

damn! and I was only doing this because mom told me I was special. fuck it, I guess.

I think people are doing it thinking they will not be caught up in the casualty list. After all, why would you spend 150,000 on an education that won't land you a job? Just because you like to learn about law?

Because if you're going to LS odds are high you just spent 50k on a liberal arts degree that won't land you a job so your just continuing your trend of spending money on degrees that won't land you a job?

[as stars burn]

WSJ confirms: law is fucked. T14 grads with baller internships can't find work. Turn back while you can! you are not special.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... ESixthNews

damn! and I was only doing this because mom told me I was special. fuck it, I guess.

I think people are doing it thinking they will not be caught up in the casualty list. After all, why would you spend 150,000 on an education that won't land you a job? Just because you like to learn about law?

Because if you're going to LS odds are high you just spent 50k on a liberal arts degree that won't land you a job so your just continuing your trend of spending money on degrees that won't land you a job?

lol, +1. I graduated undergrad with a journalism degree, no job, and no money. Thankfully I was only in $5k of debt from a small loan I took out junior year but I was truly fucked after undergrad...and now I'm working in retail still not making money and being miserable. With my fiance, we should be able to keep law school debt under $80k (including COL expenses) so honestly, being fucked after law school doesn't scare me much; however, it does help to have a fiance who is in a pretty good field and will lessen the financial burden for me.

[SwollenMonkey]

Well, if after I graduate LS I cannot find employment, I'm heading to the military to become a military lawyer. Screw this crap. At least Uncle Sam is always hiring.

[Matthies]

Well, if after I graduate LS I cannot find employment, I'm heading to the military to become a military lawyer. Screw this crap. At least Uncle Sam is always hiring.

Standard TLS response:

You think that's going to happen but all those T14 grads and laid off biglaw lawyers are taking all the JAG jobs, and the JAG recruiter's jobs, and like recalling people from the national guard and taking their jobs at home and in Iraq, AT THE SAME TIME.