C/O 2017 Median LSAT/GPA/Class Size Forum

[stellina]

Literally the only goal of law school is to make you a lawyer. If a school is completely failing at that 30% of the time, it's a shit school.

But anyway.. MEDIANSSS

[should-i-do-it]

Literally the only goal of law school is to make you a lawyer. If a school is completely failing at that 30% of the time, it's a shit school.

But anyway.. MEDIANSSS

Bro speaks the truth

[runinthefront]

Literally the only goal of law school is to make you a lawyer. If a school is completely failing at that 30% of the time, it's a shit school.

But anyway.. MEDIANSSS

Bro speaks the truth

duuuuuuude you made a thread about wanting to attending ND just the other day

Asian so not URM, below both medians so I know chances aren't very good, but was wondering if there was anyone who got in with similar numbers. I'm retaking in Sept, just wondering incase I don't improve

Notre Dame: 71.7% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.

[stellina]

Yo runinthefront, just realized I overlooked your other post. I wasn't comparing apples to oranges. There's a difference between failing to become a lawyer and complete unemployment, and I didn't use those terms interchangeably.

If you want to subtract out school-funded, fine. I didn't. But I'm well aware of how the ABA data works, and nothing I cited was inaccurate.*

*eta well, i said wustl had 20%+ unemp. when it's actaully 19.3%. Dramatic effect w round numbers, and all.

[MikeJD]

Still no Georgetown and George Washington the two HUGE schools with the most likely chance of lower stats. Same with Emory.

[AT9]

Can't believe Florida is at a 158. So in the third most populous state in the country (or soon to be third), not one of its many law schools has a median breaking 160. Has FSU released yet?

Yeah, 159

Good. Maybe they'll get off their high horse now that their median students at their prestigious institution are of the same caliber as Kansas, Lewis & Clark, Georgia State, Houston, OU, etc. Nothing against those schools, but UF carries itself as if it's so much better. Along those lines, glad to see that Bama dropped...

However, UF and FSU won't lose their status in the state unless they really crash and burn. It's not like FL employers are going to say "oh, UF's median dropped, better start hiring from (insert FL TTT) or (other Southeastern regional). The best of UF/FSU and, to a lesser extent, Miami/Stetson, will be the ones in the running for the best FL jobs for the foreseeable future.

[ms9]

Hi folks, I am working on some schools. Karen and I was actually in the NU Law admissions office talking with Johann yesterday and tweeted the bit of information he shared. Alas no medians to report yet and it seemed obnoxious to pester Johann about it but our conference starts today so I will share what I can, when I can!

Mike

[Moneytrees]

I would like to remind you guys that being unemployed 9 months after graduation is not the same thing as never being hired as an attorney. Some attorneys work as paralegals for a 6 months or so and then get hired as full attorneys. Happens quite frequently at my small firm. That's obviously not a good outcome, but still, keep that in mind.

That being said, the guy defending the Florida schools made some great points. Florida's regionals might not have the lay prestige or the admissions requirements as some of the higher ranked regionals, but their overall employment numbers are comparable if you don't consider Biglaw. Emory and U. of Minnesota usually only places around 20% of their class in Big Law. Plus, it's not like strong regional schools have much of a national reach anyways, which begs the question: what are you really getting at those schools that you can't at UF? Is that 20% chance worth hundreds of thousands of dollars?

[Tiago Splitter]

I would like to remind you guys that being unemployed 9 months after graduation is not the same thing as never being hired as an attorney. Some attorneys work as paralegals for a 6 months or so and then get hired as full attorneys. Happens quite frequently at my small firm. That's obviously not a good outcome, but still, keep that in mind.

Shit schools love to push this idea and have convinced the ABA starting next year to use a 10 month cutoff instead of 9 months. But to date, not one has voluntarily provided longer-term data. We anxiously await.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Literally the only goal of law school is to make you a lawyer. If a school is completely failing at that 30% of the time, it's a shit school.

But anyway.. MEDIANSSS

Faulty premise, over simplified reasoning, worthless conclusion.

Thanks, bro / ladybro.

Also the stench of insecure whining about life's circumstances and how "unfair" those damn boomers are really doesn't need to permeate every single thread. Medians please.

[whereskyle]

Hi folks, I am working on some schools. Karen and I was actually in the NU Law admissions office talking with Johann yesterday and tweeted the bit of information he shared. Alas no medians to report yet and it seemed obnoxious to pester Johann about it but our conference starts today so I will share what I can, when I can!

Mike

Thanks, mike!

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

I would like to remind you guys that being unemployed 9 months after graduation is not the same thing as never being hired as an attorney. Some attorneys work as paralegals for a 6 months or so and then get hired as full attorneys. Happens quite frequently at my small firm. That's obviously not a good outcome, but still, keep that in mind.

Shit schools love to push this idea and have convinced the ABA starting next year to use a 10 month cutoff instead of 9 months. But to date, not one has voluntarily provided longer-term data. We anxiously await.

Most law students, or damn close to most law students, get their jobs within 1-5 months of actually having a bar license. For example, in my field, you can rarely even interview before results are announced.

1. States with harder bar exams will have a lower LST score. Not the fault of schools in those states.

2. More importantly, states like CA or CO that get late results only have 3 months to search for a job with an actual license before Feb 15. Compare that with other states that can provide 5 months of licensed job searching before Feb 15. The proposal to report at ten months is being pushed by states like CA in an attempt to level the playing field, at least slightly. Obviously, if these schools didn't already have graduates getting jobs in the tenth month, there would be no reason to offer the proposal.

But please continue with the unbridled cynicism.

[star fox]

If any school wants to publish 12 month data then I'm sure students would welcome it. Lingering in underemployment for 9+ months is a terrifying prospect prospect regardless.

[MikeJD]

This is suppose to be a median page. Enter some other thread for employment.

[JCougar]

I would like to remind you guys that being unemployed 9 months after graduation is not the same thing as never being hired as an attorney. Some attorneys work as paralegals for a 6 months or so and then get hired as full attorneys. Happens quite frequently at my small firm. That's obviously not a good outcome, but still, keep that in mind.

That being said, the guy defending the Florida schools made some great points. Florida's regionals might not have the lay prestige or the admissions requirements as some of the higher ranked regionals, but their overall employment numbers are comparable if you don't consider Biglaw. Emory and U. of Minnesota usually only places around 20% of their class in Big Law. Plus, it's not like strong regional schools have much of a national reach anyways, which begs the question: what are you really getting at those schools that you can't at UF? Is that 20% chance worth hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Yeah, this is mostly BS. It might happen at one firm, but most of the time, jobs like this are unstable, and suck so bad that people quickly quit and leave law for anything else they can find. Especially because putting jobs like this act as an anchor to your resume. You immediately give off the impression that you're incompetent if you work at one of these places.

I'll bet any money that overall legal employment starts going down pretty quickly after the ~12 month after graduation period, because while each year there are ~26K full-time, "JD-required" jobs, most students/applicants don't realize that almost half of those jobs are so ghetto that, after one year, they figure out that there's better career prospects in areas like bartending, carpentry, or sales.

Shitlaw is generally a miserable, joke of an experience, and it drives a lot of people out of the legal profession pretty quickly.

[jk148706]

This is suppose to be a median page. Enter some other thread for employment.

[bl1nds1ght]

I'm just making a point. I would imagine EVERY school outside of the T20 leaves you with a 70% > of actually becoming a lawyer

Iowa (29) is about 76% with about 20% BL / FC. It's got lower gross unemployment and better BL / FC placement than Minnesota.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/iowa/2013/

Otherwise, yes, medians.

[TheodoreKGB]

.

[whitespider]

This is suppose to be a median page. Enter some other thread for employment.

Your wish is my command...

American U Law

156 (-1)
3.37 (-.03)
430 Enrolled (-46)

http://www.wcl.american.edu/admiss/profile.cfm

[FSK]

How the hell does American enroll 430, when GW & GT both enroll 400+. Jesus christ.

[Rigo]

How the hell does American enroll 430, when GW & GT both enroll 400+. Jesus christ.

DC > employment outcomes.

[Moneytrees]

I would like to remind you guys that being unemployed 9 months after graduation is not the same thing as never being hired as an attorney. Some attorneys work as paralegals for a 6 months or so and then get hired as full attorneys. Happens quite frequently at my small firm. That's obviously not a good outcome, but still, keep that in mind.

That being said, the guy defending the Florida schools made some great points. Florida's regionals might not have the lay prestige or the admissions requirements as some of the higher ranked regionals, but their overall employment numbers are comparable if you don't consider Biglaw. Emory and U. of Minnesota usually only places around 20% of their class in Big Law. Plus, it's not like strong regional schools have much of a national reach anyways, which begs the question: what are you really getting at those schools that you can't at UF? Is that 20% chance worth hundreds of thousands of dollars?

Yeah, this is mostly BS. It might happen at one firm, but most of the time, jobs like this are unstable, and suck so bad that people quickly quit and leave law for anything else they can find. Especially because putting jobs like this act as an anchor to your resume. You immediately give off the impression that you're incompetent if you work at one of these places.

I'll bet any money that overall legal employment starts going down pretty quickly after the ~12 month after graduation period, because while each year there are ~26K full-time, "JD-required" jobs, most students/applicants don't realize that almost half of those jobs are so ghetto that, after one year, they figure out that there's better career prospects in areas like bartending, carpentry, or sales.

Shitlaw is generally a miserable, joke of an experience, and it drives a lot of people out of the legal profession pretty quickly.

It's not BS. I completely agree with you that working at a small firm is usually a poor outcome. I also agree that overall employment probably does go down after 12 months. I'm just pointing out that saying "if you haven't found a job as an attorney after 9 months, you will never find one" is an exaggeration that gets thrown around too much on this site. Also, the entry level jobs in small law are mostly tough and unrewarding, but that doesn't mean people are not grateful to at least be employed. I doubt they would quit to be bartenders dude.

Back to medians.

[whitespider]

South Texas (no medians - 25/75 only)

148/?/154 (0/?/0)
2.86/?/3.34 (-.09/?/-.06)
299 Enrolled (-34)

https://www.stcl.edu/admissions/student_profile.html

[Moneytrees]

God there are so many terrible, terrible schools out there.

[should-i-do-it]

Whitespider has the highest useful posts/total posts ratio on this site. God bless you Whitespider