CLASS OF 2018 MEDIANS! (LSAT/GPA/Class Size) Forum

[krads153]

Aren't we down to T11? I thought M was out in addition to G and now B

Northwestern is probably next. its median was like 170 a few years ago....

N's 25th was a TTT-ish 162 this past year...

haha, wow...The 25ths of many T-14s used to be like 167, only a few years ago. At this rate, the only schools with reasonable numbers are going to be HYS....shameful.

I may be wrong, but I assume the reason why N was so low on the 25th was because of their preference for people w/ WE that may have lower scores. And, personally, I think Gtown's drop is likely due to their class size.

I feel for Michigan, though. I don't know how true this is, but I heard they were once T6 or flirting with it.

NU has been doing that for awhile though - so that doesn't really explain the recent drop in the 25th. I swear their 25ths used to be good a few years ago.

[Ron Howard]

For the class of 2017, Penn's 25th was 164 and Northwestern's was 162. They also get to operate freely, without a requirement for a certain amount of in state students. You have to cut public school's like Berkeley some slack.

Well both V and M had higher medians and 25ths than B, are you calling Californians stupid? Bc obviously LSAT correlates to intelligence

Actually no. I do not think Californians are stupid. I was actually defending Berkeley, and my argument is that Berkeley, desiring to maintain certain attributes among is students, is forced to sacrifice more LSAT points than schools like Penn, because they face greater constraints on the pool of available admits. I would, for the record, whose Berkeley over Penn and NU any day of the week.

[rnoodles]

I feel for Michigan, though. I don't know how true this is, but I heard they were once T6 or flirting with it.

M was T3 at one point

Pour one out for M...

[rnoodles]

Aren't we down to T11? I thought M was out in addition to G and now B

Northwestern is probably next. its median was like 170 a few years ago....

N's 25th was a TTT-ish 162 this past year...

haha, wow...The 25ths of many T-14s used to be like 167, only a few years ago. At this rate, the only schools with reasonable numbers are going to be HYS....shameful.

I may be wrong, but I assume the reason why N was so low on the 25th was because of their preference for people w/ WE that may have lower scores. And, personally, I think Gtown's drop is likely due to their class size.

I feel for Michigan, though. I don't know how true this is, but I heard they were once T6 or flirting with it.

NU has been doing that for awhile though - so that doesn't really explain the recent drop in the 25th. I swear their 25ths used to be good a few years ago.

Could it be the drop in higher scorers?

[krads153]

For the class of 2017, Penn's 25th was 164 and Northwestern's was 162. They also get to operate freely, without a requirement for a certain amount of in state students. You have to cut public school's like Berkeley some slack.

Well both V and M had higher medians and 25ths than B, are you calling Californians stupid? Bc obviously LSAT correlates to intelligence

Actually no. I do not think Californians are stupid. I was actually defending Berkeley, and my argument is that Berkeley, desiring to maintain certain attributes among is students, is forced to sacrifice more LSAT points than schools like Penn, because they face greater constraints on the pool of available admits. I would, for the record, whose Berkeley over Penn and NU any day of the week.

His point was that V and M face the same constraints since they're also public schools though, so maybe the California applicant pool is worse than V's and M's instate applicant pool?

I guess this is good for high scorers though - you guys better be getting full rides everywhere these days

[krads153]

Aren't we down to T11? I thought M was out in addition to G and now B

Northwestern is probably next. its median was like 170 a few years ago....

N's 25th was a TTT-ish 162 this past year...

haha, wow...The 25ths of many T-14s used to be like 167, only a few years ago. At this rate, the only schools with reasonable numbers are going to be HYS....shameful.

I may be wrong, but I assume the reason why N was so low on the 25th was because of their preference for people w/ WE that may have lower scores. And, personally, I think Gtown's drop is likely due to their class size.

I feel for Michigan, though. I don't know how true this is, but I heard they were once T6 or flirting with it.

NU has been doing that for awhile though - so that doesn't really explain the recent drop in the 25th. I swear their 25ths used to be good a few years ago.

Could it be the drop in higher scorers?

Higher scorers are actively choosing not to go to law school and going into other fields - that explains the general drop in numbers. Basically only the worse people applying to law school.

I don't know why NU in particular had a huge drop though. Maybe it doesn't give out enough schollies?

[Kinky John]

I don't know why NU in particular had a huge drop though. Maybe it doesn't give out enough schollies?

My guess is, the lower the 25th the less $ you need to give to those students to convince them to come. Low 25ths are frugal

[Ron Howard]

For the class of 2017, Penn's 25th was 164 and Northwestern's was 162. They also get to operate freely, without a requirement for a certain amount of in state students. You have to cut public school's like Berkeley some slack.

Well both V and M had higher medians and 25ths than B, are you calling Californians stupid? Bc obviously LSAT correlates to intelligence

Actually no. I do not think Californians are stupid. I was actually defending Berkeley, and my argument is that Berkeley, desiring to maintain certain attributes among is students, is forced to sacrifice more LSAT points than schools like Penn, because they face greater constraints on the pool of available admits. I would, for the record, whose Berkeley over Penn and NU any day of the week.

His point was that V and M face the same constraints since they're also public schools though, so maybe the California applicant pool is worse?

No. I don't think it is worse. It is a larger state (though they also do take more instate students than UVA and Michigan, and UVA has fair amount of "instate students" who just lived in Virginia for a few years and worked in DC). I think Berkeley is just more particular with what they want out of their students, and have to sacrifice LSAT points to accomplish it because of the constraint.

[Ron Howard]

I don't know why NU in particular had a huge drop though. Maybe it doesn't give out enough schollies?

My guess is, the lower the 25th the less $ you need to give to those students to convince them to come. Low 25ths are frugal

Pretty much. Those are the folks law schools use to finance the scholarships for median and above students.

[Tiago Splitter]

There's a spreadsheet with all this stuff in the OP going back to the class of 2015. Northwestern's 25th was still only 164 that year. Schools that take splitters are also forced to take reverse splitters to keep good numbers.

[Kinky John]

No. I don't think it is worse. It is a larger state (though they also do take more instate students than UVA and Michigan, and UVA has fair amount of "instate students" who just lived in Virginia for a few years and worked in DC). I think Berkeley is just more particular with what they want out of their students, and have to sacrifice LSAT points to accomplish it because of the constraint.

Yeah I'm just giving you a hard time

e: and I hope the lurkers realize that this is the thread where everything's made up and the points don't matter.

[krads153]

There's a spreadsheet with all this stuff in the OP going back to the class of 2015. Northwestern's 25th was still only 164 that year. Schools that take splitters are also forced to take reverse splitters to keep good numbers.

That's after my time in law school. I think class of 2015 had crappy numbers too. I think a few years before that the 25ths were higher

[chuckbass]

oh no lawyers are going to be stupid in ten years if we keep letting this happen

[Tiago Splitter]

There's a spreadsheet with all this stuff in the OP going back to the class of 2015. Northwestern's 25th was still only 164 that year. Schools that take splitters are also forced to take reverse splitters to keep good numbers.

That's after my time in law school. I think class of 2015 had crappy numbers too. I think a few years before that the 25ths were higher

For class of 2013, Berkeley's was 162, Northwestern's was 167. Northwestern is like most T-14's in that it had to drop deeper and accept more splitters and reverse splitters (and/or cut class size)as apps went down. Berkeley just never gave a shit, but like I said they probably still screwed up somewhere and were planning to hit 167 as they have over and over again for a decade.

[jk148706]

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[basedvulpes]

Post removed.

[SabbathPuppet]

Anyone know if there's anywhere you can find historical rankings and admissions data going back more than just a few years? I'm curious about how much things tend to change like decade to decade

https://www.law.stanford.edu/sites/defa ... l-rp20.pdf

[basedvulpes]

Post removed.

[jk148706]

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[Tiago Splitter]

Before 2006 schools had to average LSAT scores, so the comparison to before then is a little tricky. But I agree things haven't changed all that much within the T-14. The really big changes have happened outside of it, where schools like American now have medians below their 25th from a few years ago.

[Ron Howard]

haha, wow...The 25ths of many T-14s used to be like 167, only a few years ago. At this rate, the only schools with reasonable numbers are going to be HYS....shameful.

Numbers are down, but really only compared to the peak. It does not seem like historically low numbers for top schools.

The c/o 2005 at UVA had a 164/166/168 LSAT 25/50/75. That's worse than it is now. And they had the same US News ranking then as they do now, so I'm assuming peer schools had similar numbers.

http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... lass05.htm

ETA: That median GPA at UVA was also way lower than it is now

This is correct. Before the boom in applications in the mid oughts, all of the schools had much lower medians. But I believe this is largely due to an increase in a culture of studying for the LSAT. And this is why a lot of prelaw advisors think that the LSAT is an IQ test that you can't really study for.

[basedvulpes]

Post removed.

[rnoodles]

Higher scorers are actively choosing not to go to law school and going into other fields - that explains the general drop in numbers. Basically only the worse people applying to law school.

I don't know why NU in particular had a huge drop though. Maybe it doesn't give out enough schollies?

Purely speculative, but I think C may be adversely affecting NU numbers when it comes to high scorers w/ big schollies. I'm sure most people that get a pretty big offer at NU, get a respectable (maybe sometimes equivalent) offer at C, which seems to have significantly more prestige as a T6 (I think they're tied at 4, but I may be wrong).

In short, you're probably partially right in saying that.

[Ron Howard]

Also, let us not forget grade inflation. I think it is very possible--even probable--that an increase in high grades over the past decade, partly the result of professors responding to the economic climate and partly the result of the whininess of millennials--gave rise to higher GPAa overall.

[jk148706]

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