Fraternities/sororities Forum

[daryldixon]

You are literally delusional.

Controlling for SAT scores, college major, gender, and state of residence, university students were more likely to have joined a fraternity or sorority if they had come from in state and had higher verbal SAT scores, but lower math SAT scores, the opposite of what simple uncontrolled averages indicate. Controlling for the same variables, fraternity and sorority members suffered from 1 to 10 percent lower cumulative GPAs than non-Greek students. This negative effect was most pronounced for small fraternities and weakest for sororities.

Does Going Greek Impair Undergraduate Academic Performance? A Case Study, Farley Grubb, The American Journal of Economics and Sociology Vol. 65, No. 5 (Nov., 2006), pp. 1085-1110
http://www.jstor.org/stable/27739611

What about those people that don't go Greek because they're social failures and do awful because of it? Does that study account for those people? Also, that study is 6 years old and I can't see the actual conditions upon which the study was conducted, so I don't know exactly what he's saying. Anyone can take the first paragraph from the abstract of a academic article they haven't read to support their position, it doesn't make their argument valid though. As the guy above me stated, it's difficult to compare as all schools are different and there are many variables.

I actually don't care for Greek organizations, I just don't like how you blanketly stated that unless the ad-comm is a Greek of the persuasion of the applicant, that applicant will not look good with a Greek organization on their resume. I know many people in many different fraternities at my school and though there is a commonality amongst the members of each organization, there are those too that are highly academic and competent. Adcomms can not, then, stereotype members of an organization as such; it would be no different from them stereotyping a member of any other organization/group/religion/affiliation. These things don't define a person.

Read the full paper. It explains all your inquiries and gives methodology. Also, your anecdotal experience of "knowing" people that are in frats does not negate the findings of a scientific study.

Adcomms can and do "stereotype" people based on the organizations they belong to. In fact that is all they do. There are no interviews in the law school process so they have to judge every applicant based on the information they put on their resumes. OP wanted to know if it would help or hurt him to put his fraternity on his resume. Obviously, putting it on will allow ad comms to draw one of several conclusions about OP as an applicant. My argument is that many will draw either no conclusion or negative conclusions about OP because of the commonly held negative-associations that people make with fraternities and sororities. However, if the adcomm is a former greek-life participant (that has positive feelings about the current greek-life system) then they could possibly draw some positive conclusions from OP's inclusion.

[Louis1127]

Before I go, let me leave you GDI naysayers with a few quick facts you won't hear on the six o'clock news, or in your local hipster watering hole:

Of the nation's 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men.

85% of the Fortune 500 executives belong to a fraternity.

40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men.

76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity.

Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

63% of the U.S. President's Cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek.

A National Conference report shows a high percentage of the 4,000 NIC fraternity chapters are above the All-Men's scholastic average on their respective campuses.

A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

The first Female Senator was Greek

The first Female Astronaut was Greek

All of the Apollo 11 Astronauts are Greek

Over $7 million is raised each year by Greeks nationally

850,000 hours are volunteered by greeks annually

The Greek system is the largest network of volunteers in the US, with members donating over 10 million hours of volunteer service each year

71% of those listed in "Who's Who in America" belong to a fraternity

This aside, yes being the leader of an organization which produces the above will surely hurt your app. Join the chess club instead, folks!

I've stated it on this board already, but the tide is changing. It's blatantly evident. Fraternities are becoming obsolete in a world where diversity and cultural exchange dominate. A majority of those statistics relate to people from the previous generation; completely different circumstances, culture, and mindset. Don't be ridiculous.

Captain is credited. In the South, the fraternities and sororities are one of the last vestiges of segregation. That is the point of them down here. But I don;t know how yall do it up there. Maybe they are multicultural and include ppl who arent white and rich as hell. But thank God times are changing.

edited a rather hilarious grammatical error

[stef1330]

You are literally delusional.

Controlling for SAT scores, college major, gender, and state of residence, university students were more likely to have joined a fraternity or sorority if they had come from in state and had higher verbal SAT scores, but lower math SAT scores, the opposite of what simple uncontrolled averages indicate. Controlling for the same variables, fraternity and sorority members suffered from 1 to 10 percent lower cumulative GPAs than non-Greek students. This negative effect was most pronounced for small fraternities and weakest for sororities.

Does Going Greek Impair Undergraduate Academic Performance? A Case Study, Farley Grubb, The American Journal of Economics and Sociology Vol. 65, No. 5 (Nov., 2006), pp. 1085-1110
http://www.jstor.org/stable/27739611

What about those people that don't go Greek because they're social failures and do awful because of it? Does that study account for those people? Also, that study is 6 years old and I can't see the actual conditions upon which the study was conducted, so I don't know exactly what he's saying. Anyone can take the first paragraph from the abstract of a academic article they haven't read to support their position, it doesn't make their argument valid though. As the guy above me stated, it's difficult to compare as all schools are different and there are many variables.

I actually don't care for Greek organizations, I just don't like how you blanketly stated that unless the ad-comm is a Greek of the persuasion of the applicant, that applicant will not look good with a Greek organization on their resume. I know many people in many different fraternities at my school and though there is a commonality amongst the members of each organization, there are those too that are highly academic and competent. Adcomms can not, then, stereotype members of an organization as such; it would be no different from them stereotyping a member of any other organization/group/religion/affiliation. These things don't define a person.

Read the full paper. It explains all your inquiries and gives methodology. Also, your anecdotal experience of "knowing" people that are in frats does not negate the findings of a scientific study.

Adcomms can and do "stereotype" people based on the organizations they belong to. In fact that is all they do. There are no interviews in the law school process so they have to judge every applicant based on the information they put on their resumes. OP wanted to know if it would help or hurt him to put his fraternity on his resume. Obviously, putting it on will allow ad comms to draw one of several conclusions about OP as an applicant. My argument is that many will draw either no conclusion or negative conclusions about OP because of the commonly held negative-associations that people make with fraternities and sororities. However, if the adcomm is a former greek-life participant (that has positive feelings about the current greek-life system) then they could possibly draw some positive conclusions from OP's inclusion.

Bud, you have to consider the following factors.
1)it's UVA. They have a rich Greek life tradition specifically at their university.
2) the rest of my application which I stated in earlier posts,
And
3) it IS the south.

[nucky thompson]

There was about a 6 month span where I took mine off my resume, but I was an undergrad at the time and my chapter had been in the national news for a very unflattering incident. Outside of that, yeah, never take it off. It can only help make a connection, or start a conversation.

To be part of the 'ol' boy network' you have to actually know people and use your connections. In these instances, fraternities are wonderful. Just throwing around your app (w/ frat listed) to people you don't know won't do anything at all; unless by a marginal chance your hiring guy is in that fraternity.

Disagree with this completely. As with anything, there is a risk that something on your resume can be interpreted by some as good and by others as bad. but generally, imo, being in the same fraternity as an interviewer will provide a bigger bump, but is not necessary for a bump. Fratbros like other fratbros, regardless of fraternity or sorority. People like to assimilate into groups, greek-non-greek turns into us-them.

I don't think having it on your resume would change a callback into a ding, but I do think having it on your resume could be the difference going from a ding to a callback/potentially an offer. If one resume line for undergrad greek shit is the factor that changes a callback into a ding, or a potential offer into a ding, then you weren't a strong candidate anyway. But because of the "us/them" mentality of many greeks, the resume line can be significant plus at times.

[stef1330]

Before I go, let me leave you GDI naysayers with a few quick facts you won't hear on the six o'clock news, or in your local hipster watering hole:

Of the nation's 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by fraternity men.

85% of the Fortune 500 executives belong to a fraternity.

40 of 47 U.S. Supreme Court Justices since 1910 were fraternity men.

76% of all Congressmen and Senators belong to a fraternity.

Every U.S. President and Vice President, except two in each office, born since the first social fraternity was founded in 1825 have been members of a fraternity.

63% of the U.S. President's Cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek.

A National Conference report shows a high percentage of the 4,000 NIC fraternity chapters are above the All-Men's scholastic average on their respective campuses.

A U.S. Government study shows that over 70% of all those who join a fraternity/sororitiy graduate, while under 50% of all non-fraternity/sorority persons graduate.

Over 85% of the student leaders on some 730 campuses are involved in the Greek community.

The first Female Senator was Greek

The first Female Astronaut was Greek

All of the Apollo 11 Astronauts are Greek

Over $7 million is raised each year by Greeks nationally

850,000 hours are volunteered by greeks annually

The Greek system is the largest network of volunteers in the US, with members donating over 10 million hours of volunteer service each year

71% of those listed in "Who's Who in America" belong to a fraternity

This aside, yes being the leader of an organization which produces the above will surely hurt your app. Join the chess club instead, folks!

I've stated it on this board already, but the tide is changing. It's blatantly evident. Fraternities are becoming obsolete in a world where diversity and cultural exchange dominate. A majority of those statistics relate to people from the previous generation; completely different circumstances, culture, and mindset. Don't be ridiculous.

Captain is credited. In the South, the fraternities and sororities are one of the last vestiges of segregation. That is the point of them down here. But I don;t know how yall do it up there. Maybe they are multicultural and include ppl who arent white and rich as hell. But thank God times are changing.

edited a rather hilarious grammatical error

Are you out of your damn mind? I'm NOT white, and I came out of a top house at one of the most southern schools in the nation with a very strong Greek life. We are not racists. Sure a lot of my brothers came from old money and all ,but the fraternity recruits you on who you are as a person. Not your skin color. Many Greek orgs want someone who is "fratty" which generally consists of white guys in pastels and boat shoes but if a black guys has boat shoes, knows how to dress and is a respectable man- all Greek organizations at most schools would give him a bid. Of course I cannot speak for every single fraternity because there are bound to be some outliers.
All in all, Greek life is awesome and i think anyone is a fool if they think it is solely for whites. It is it's own subculture. And to many, that's subculture looks "white" because if someone came in wearing baggy jeans and a wife beater (regardless of skin color) they wouldn't get a bid.

That being said , do you think I should put it on my resume or not?!

[lawhopeful10]

Holy shit I can't believe this is still an issue, yes put it on your resume. As others have said adcoms won't really care but it won't hurt you.

[Chidasuuu]

In Hoc anyone? lol but yeah, just to summarize everyone's opinions. Put it on your resume if you held a leadership position or had some significant contributions. If you were just a member, you can either put it on or leave it off it won't help or hurt your chances much.

[Louis1127]

[/quote]

Captain is credited. In the South, the fraternities and sororities are one of the last vestiges of segregation. That is the point of them down here. But I don;t know how yall do it up there. Maybe they are multicultural and include ppl who arent white and rich as hell. But thank God times are changing.

edited a rather hilarious grammatical error[/quote]



Are you out of your damn mind? I'm NOT white, and I came out of a top house at one of the most southern schools in the nation with a very strong Greek life. We are not racists. Sure a lot of my brothers came from old money and all ,but the fraternity recruits you on who you are as a person. Not your skin color. Many Greek orgs want someone who is "fratty" which generally consists of white guys in pastels and boat shoes but if a black guys has boat shoes, knows how to dress and is a respectable man- all Greek organizations at most schools would give him a bid. Of course I cannot speak for every single fraternity because there are bound to be some outliers.
All in all, Greek life is awesome and i think anyone is a fool if they think it is solely for whites. It is it's own subculture. And to many, that's subculture looks "white" because if someone came in wearing baggy jeans and a wife beater (regardless of skin color) they wouldn't get a bid.

That being said , do you think I should put it on my resume or not?![/quote][/quote]

About 3/4 of this post is just mischaracterizing what I said in my last post. But that's ok. Here is an article explaining that ONE black girl has pledged a Panhellenic sorority at my school, Alabama.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... xperts-say

Were you Pres/VP/ or did anything that showed you know how to do something? If so, I say throw it on there. If not, I say leave it off.

[iamgeorgebush]

IMO: Put it on if and only if you had a leadership role or significant volunteer involvement as part of the organization. There is no inherent value to just being a "member" of a fraternity or sorority any more than there is an inherent value to being a "member" of humankind.

[AJB]

In Hoc anyone? lol but yeah, just to summarize everyone's opinions. Put it on your resume if you held a leadership position or had some significant contributions. If you were just a member, you can either put it on or leave it off it won't help or hurt your chances much.

Sigma Cheddar?

[stef1330]

Captain is credited. In the South, the fraternities and sororities are one of the last vestiges of segregation. That is the point of them down here. But I don;t know how yall do it up there. Maybe they are multicultural and include ppl who arent white and rich as hell. But thank God times are changing.

edited a rather hilarious grammatical error[/quote]



Are you out of your damn mind? I'm NOT white, and I came out of a top house at one of the most southern schools in the nation with a very strong Greek life. We are not racists. Sure a lot of my brothers came from old money and all ,but the fraternity recruits you on who you are as a person. Not your skin color. Many Greek orgs want someone who is "fratty" which generally consists of white guys in pastels and boat shoes but if a black guys has boat shoes, knows how to dress and is a respectable man- all Greek organizations at most schools would give him a bid. Of course I cannot speak for every single fraternity because there are bound to be some outliers.
All in all, Greek life is awesome and i think anyone is a fool if they think it is solely for whites. It is it's own subculture. And to many, that's subculture looks "white" because if someone came in wearing baggy jeans and a wife beater (regardless of skin color) they wouldn't get a bid.

That being said , do you think I should put it on my resume or not?![/quote][/quote]

About 3/4 of this post is just mischaracterizing what I said in my last post. But that's ok. Here is an article explaining that ONE black girl has pledged a Panhellenic sorority at my school, Alabama.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... xperts-say

Were you Pres/VP/ or did anything that showed you know how to do something? If so, I say throw it on there. If not, I say leave it off.[/quote]


Ohhhh you went to Alabama. Well despite having the dopest Greek life ever I'm pretty sure they actually do have racist houses. But that's not all of the south. Just Alabama. And I've read the story! They hoisted it on totalfratmove and talked about how stupid alba as Greek system was. Greeks Arnt like that bro!

And also, I was the Chaplin.

[Captainunaccountable]

Captain is credited. In the South, the fraternities and sororities are one of the last vestiges of segregation. That is the point of them down here. But I don;t know how yall do it up there. Maybe they are multicultural and include ppl who arent white and rich as hell. But thank God times are changing.

edited a rather hilarious grammatical error

Are you out of your damn mind? I'm NOT white, and I came out of a top house at one of the most southern schools in the nation with a very strong Greek life. We are not racists. Sure a lot of my brothers came from old money and all ,but the fraternity recruits you on who you are as a person. Not your skin color. Many Greek orgs want someone who is "fratty" which generally consists of white guys in pastels and boat shoes but if a black guys has boat shoes, knows how to dress and is a respectable man- all Greek organizations at most schools would give him a bid. Of course I cannot speak for every single fraternity because there are bound to be some outliers.
All in all, Greek life is awesome and i think anyone is a fool if they think it is solely for whites. It is it's own subculture. And to many, that's subculture looks "white" because if someone came in wearing baggy jeans and a wife beater (regardless of skin color) they wouldn't get a bid.

That being said , do you think I should put it on my resume or not?![/quote][/quote]

About 3/4 of this post is just mischaracterizing what I said in my last post. But that's ok. Here is an article explaining that ONE black girl has pledged a Panhellenic sorority at my school, Alabama.
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... xperts-say

Were you Pres/VP/ or did anything that showed you know how to do something? If so, I say throw it on there. If not, I say leave it off.[/quote]


Ohhhh you went to Alabama. Well despite having the dopest Greek life ever I'm pretty sure they actually do have racist houses. But that's not all of the south. Just Alabama. And I've read the story! They hoisted it on totalfratmove and talked about how stupid alba as Greek system was. Greeks Arnt like that bro!

And also, I was the Chaplin.[/quote]

That is not, by any means, the only Greek system that is 'racist'. Not even close. Greeks themselves may not be like that, but the alumni have a tight grip on fraternities in the south.

[hookem7]

Why would you leave this off your LS app? Pledging required a lot more effort than joining some rando club, be proud of it. Obviously this shouldn't be the highlight of your application, but it is certainly useful. Just don't count on any boost other than proving you are somewhat socially capable unless you had a position with actual responsibilities. Maybe in the North this hurts, but in the South it's pretty important. Phi Alpha

[Danger Zone]

Ad comms need to know that you aren't beta. Don't just list your frat, that's pledge level shit. Instead, tell them your record time for shot gunning a beer. Make your PS about all the soristitutes you slayed whilst preparing to be the next US President. You will get in all of your target schools. I know because one of my friends did this and he is a big time hip hop lawyer now.

[Nucky]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

[Captainunaccountable]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

I hate to break it to you, but anyone with boat shoes and a haircut get into a fraternity. In California you probably don't even need the haircut part. Oh, and, being able to drink copious amounts of alcohol will certainly add to you cv. I was actually in one at one point and most of my friends/family are. They're not unique. They continue to talk about it after college as if it is the hallmark of their lives. It's not. They're living in fantasy land because no one cares.

[Nucky]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

I hate to break it to you, but anyone with boat shoes and a haircut get into a fraternity. In California you probably don't even need the haircut part. Oh, and, being able to drink copious amounts of alcohol will certainly add to you cv. I was actually in one at one point and most of my friends/family are. They're not unique. They continue to talk about it after college as if it is the hallmark of their lives. It's not. They're living in fantasy land because no one cares.

Maybe they continue to discuss it because it was a great part of their lives. While you sat in your dorm room and watched Thundercats some of us actually had a good time.

I'm sorry that some of you are such petty losers that you feel the need to lash out at the guys you emulated in college over the internet. Someone has to be a loser. I'm sorry it was you. Dont take that out on the rest of us and get a life.

BTW, @Mal, "spurious?!" Who the hell speaks that way? Keep typing words in to Microsoft Word and looking up synonyms that allow you to post something semi-intelligible. Maybe you can become a 9000+ poster on TLS one day! Surely the crowning achievement of many of your lives.

The fact that you felt the need to come here to lash out against Greek life, put us all into the same box, and take out your frustrations is quite revealing. You guys are pathetic.

[cotiger]

Maybe they continue to discuss it because it was a great part of their lives. While you sat in your dorm room and watched Thundercats some of us actually had a good time.

I'm sorry that some of you are such petty losers that you feel the need to lash out at the guys you emulated in college over the internet. Someone has to be a loser. I'm sorry it was you. Dont take that out on the rest of us and get a life.

Chiiiiiillllllllllllllll.

Also, at most schools I'm pretty sure it's possible to have other interests than just Greek life events LOL. Though I guess it's possible that your school was different. Still.. chill.

[Captainunaccountable]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

I hate to break it to you, but anyone with boat shoes and a haircut get into a fraternity. In California you probably don't even need the haircut part. Oh, and, being able to drink copious amounts of alcohol will certainly add to you cv. I was actually in one at one point and most of my friends/family are. They're not unique. They continue to talk about it after college as if it is the hallmark of their lives. It's not. They're living in fantasy land because no one cares.

Maybe they continue to discuss it because it was a great part of their lives. While you sat in your dorm room and watched Thundercats some of us actually had a good time.

I'm sorry that some of you are such petty losers that you feel the need to lash out at the guys you emulated in college over the internet. Someone has to be a loser. I'm sorry it was you. Dont take that out on the rest of us and get a life.

BTW, @Mal, "spurious?!" Who the hell speaks that way? Keep typing words in to Microsoft Word and looking up synonyms that allow you to post something semi-intelligible. Maybe you can become a 9000+ poster on TLS one day! Surely the crowning achievement of many of your lives.

The fact that you felt the need to come here to lash out against Greek life, put us all into the same box, and take out your frustrations is quite revealing. You guys are pathetic.

1.) I'm assuming that you're joking?
2.) What part of, 'I was in one' don't you understand
3.) No, they continue to talk about it because they're so insecure and enjoy categorizing people into their delusional social distinctions
4.) I've never lived in a dorm room
5.) I don't know what thunder-cats is.
6.) I don't drink and don't need to, to have fun.

[Danger Zone]

For such a chill, sociable bro, you sure are an aspie fuck Nuck.

[Mal Reynolds]

Nucky was born and bred for success and achievement, while the rest of us are total losers. He will find nothing but success at esteemed schools like Penn State Law.

[t-14orbust]

.

[Daily_Double]

.

[db1990]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

I hate to break it to you, but anyone with boat shoes and a haircut get into a fraternity. In California you probably don't even need the haircut part. Oh, and, being able to drink copious amounts of alcohol will certainly add to you cv. I was actually in one at one point and most of my friends/family are. They're not unique. They continue to talk about it after college as if it is the hallmark of their lives. It's not. They're living in fantasy land because no one cares.

Maybe they continue to discuss it because it was a great part of their lives. While you sat in your dorm room and watched Thundercats some of us actually had a good time.

I'm sorry that some of you are such petty losers that you feel the need to lash out at the guys you emulated in college over the internet. Someone has to be a loser. I'm sorry it was you. Dont take that out on the rest of us and get a life.

BTW, @Mal, "spurious?!" Who the hell speaks that way? Keep typing words in to Microsoft Word and looking up synonyms that allow you to post something semi-intelligible. Maybe you can become a 9000+ poster on TLS one day! Surely the crowning achievement of many of your lives.

The fact that you felt the need to come here to lash out against Greek life, put us all into the same box, and take out your frustrations is quite revealing. You guys are pathetic.

u mad bro?

[tiltedwindmill]

The ignorance in this thread is amazing. Sorry you guys didn't get bids. There is always TKE.

Maybe if you hadn't posted on TLS 5000 times you would have gotten laid and made a friend by now.

I hate to break it to you, but anyone with boat shoes and a haircut get into a fraternity. In California you probably don't even need the haircut part. Oh, and, being able to drink copious amounts of alcohol will certainly add to you cv. I was actually in one at one point and most of my friends/family are. They're not unique. They continue to talk about it after college as if it is the hallmark of their lives. It's not. They're living in fantasy land because no one cares.

Maybe they continue to discuss it because it was a great part of their lives. While you sat in your dorm room and watched Thundercats some of us actually had a good time.

I'm sorry that some of you are such petty losers that you feel the need to lash out at the guys you emulated in college over the internet. Someone has to be a loser. I'm sorry it was you. Dont take that out on the rest of us and get a life.

BTW, @Mal, "spurious?!" Who the hell speaks that way? Keep typing words in to Microsoft Word and looking up synonyms that allow you to post something semi-intelligible. Maybe you can become a 9000+ poster on TLS one day! Surely the crowning achievement of many of your lives.

The fact that you felt the need to come here to lash out against Greek life, put us all into the same box, and take out your frustrations is quite revealing. You guys are pathetic.

Teach us how to fraternize?