I need to grow a set a-sap... Forum

[JCougar]

As far as WV is concerned, I have spent substantial time there. I have family in Elkins.

Places aren't boring and unappealing. People are. People who are always complaining that there's "nothing to do" are people that will be miserable wherever they are. Engaging and interesting people can be happy no matter where they are. I've had the good fortune to live in some exciting locales and some (to a gloomy pessimist) unappealing ones. The personality of the individual has far, far more bearing on their overall happiness than the number of "things to do."

What awesome experiences are you anticipating at a "prestigious" school that aren't available to a resident of WV?

+1 I've never been to WV, but this statement is 100% correct.

-1

Some places to live are simply shitty. Like where I live, for example. Everyone my age here is divorced with three children already and thinks Obama is a Muslim trying to indoctrinate our kids with subliminal communist propaganda.

Some places are just so horribly, horribly boring and shitty that everyone with the talent or oppportunity to leave has already done so.

[Pastels]

Do not get me wrong, I will always love the state of WV. However, there are no younger people coming back to the state and opportunities seem to be dwindling. Personally, I am not a fan of the outdoors and neither is anyone else in my family which takes away a large aspect of WV finer qualities. I am not saying WV is the bottom wrung of society but as a 22 year old male, there is really not much to do and many of my peers have left/are leaving the state. I know I have a possible good thing waiting but as some of you are understanding, like all good things, there are sacrifices. Yes a nice practice is nice to have but it is a risk, if things do not pan out then I am holding a degree that does not have to much carry outside of the state, however, if a I hold a year to retake I might not do better or could end up spending 200K just to end up back in WV with the practice. Again, I appreciate the posts guys. I have until June 1 to decide but my mind is still in limbo.

[Pastels]

As far as WV is concerned, I have spent substantial time there. I have family in Elkins.

Places aren't boring and unappealing. People are. People who are always complaining that there's "nothing to do" are people that will be miserable wherever they are. Engaging and interesting people can be happy no matter where they are. I've had the good fortune to live in some exciting locales and some (to a gloomy pessimist) unappealing ones. The personality of the individual has far, far more bearing on their overall happiness than the number of "things to do."

What awesome experiences are you anticipating at a "prestigious" school that aren't available to a resident of WV?

I guess I would say it would offer more mobility/prospects if it does not work out in WV. It also allows me to experience a new area and to see if I find something that fits me better personally in terms of law than to just go with what seems like the safe move.

[anothernancydrew]

This seems an obvious choice to me: take the money, take the great job, get some great experience, save some of that money up, move to a bigger/better city in 10 years once you have considerable work experience and some cushion.

Going to school in West Virginia doesn't mean you have to die in West Virginia, just have to be prepared to live there for some time. If I had the chance to attend school free of charge and then get a guaranteed job, I would be thrilled. The fact that you aren't seems a little juvenile, not in a rude way, but I don't think this is really an apocalyptic scenario.

[Pastels]

It looks like WVU is the choice.

Thanks for the wake up.

[Other25BeforeYou]

It looks like WVU is the choice.

Thanks for the wake up.

Wait, WHAT?!

I just read through this post, and I do not understand. You keep saying "I might go away, rack up $200,000 in debt, and then end up in WV anyway." But that's a good thing. You have a safety net.

If you want to retake, get a 170 and go to Gtown or Cornell or something, go $200,000 in debt, you can do that. Either you'll get some job that interests you and be happy and pay off your loans, or you'll get a job you don't like or not get a job, and then you have your parents' firm in West Virginia to fall back on. If you'll be raking major bucks there, you can pay of $200,000 in debt in no time. Not to mention, your parents already have goodwill wracked up in WV it seems, so you won't seem like a tool coming in with an out-of-state degree.

Do what's going to give you the most options. WVU is gonna leave you in WV with sure, tons of money, but also a very non-portable degree. T20 is going to leave you with a portable degree and many more options, and sure, 200K less, but what's that over a lifetime with a great job to fall back on?

If you end up at your parents firm in WV, you will either have gone to WVU and wonder what other legal jobs might be out there and what opportunities you missed, or you will have gone to a T20, seen what's out there and know, and have a mere 200K less when raking in 500K a year. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[MURPH]

It looks like WVU is the choice.

Thanks for the wake up.

Wrong choice, but good luck anyway.

[trialjunky]

It looks like WVU is the choice.

Thanks for the wake up.

FWIW, I think you made the right decision

[goawaybee]

I love these scenarios.

I am gonna side with MURPH on this one. Granted I am prob. older than most on this forum as well (not all but prob. 75-85% guess).

You are floating around a bit here. Anyone comes up with what they would consider a "real life" argument you kind of run with it. Hell everything makes sense if you want it to support/reaffirm your world view, which obviously is changing depending on your mode or level of self confidence.


Here we go....pounds on drum and lights a cig....

LIFE. You have been away and go home on breaks and get bored. The thought of returning to the life you left behind at the very least frustrates you. Too young to go back to deal with all your parents shit, see the same things you saw your whole life etc...The world is SO DAMN BIG (it really is...planets, solar systems, other nations....just a big thing going on here stay out of the rabbit hole...just one decision out of many you will have to make)

You are finding your way in the world but you aren't there yet, feeling like you can step back up on the home turf and be treated as an equal vs. "the son". Going to law school, getting JD, passing the bar will help fulfill their "what would i do if i were you" parent projecting on child shit. They think they know everything (granted they know some things but not all, they don't look in the mirror every morning at you, so they don't really know what runs through your head..your goals, dreams, what makes you tick)

It is a shituation to say the least. I will say that most of what I have learned has been earned. I have paid dearly for all my mistakes but I never forget those lessons. Guns in your face thousands of miles from home in foreign lands, waking up on the beach wondering WTF am I doing with my life, waking up in the ER more times than necessary...Those things stick with you, they build character. The beauty in scars kind of thing. It all doesn't end badly, just scares the shit out of you at times. Living in fear is horrible, I call it non-living. Doubt and fear can turn a beautiful life into a catastrophe. Becoming dissatisfied with the choices you make leads you down a path void of fulfillment.

If you don't want to go back to Mo-town right now DON'T. It is a fine town IMO. I have lived in 13 states or so in my life, non are that much better than any of the others. Just a little bit more of this, little less of that. All depends on where you are at in life at that moment and as an organism you are doing the best you can to survive right?

I say to hell with going back. The DEBT...people keep talking "oh 200k in debt..." that shit isn't real just like buying a house for 200k is bullshit. If you take any of those loans to term making all your payments you pay way more.... (ie even at fixed 6.8% for 10 yrs the 100k costs you 138k. That is a fairly short repayment period for subsidized loan. Now 100k over 20 yrs at 6.8% totals out at 183k. see those numbers, that is REAL debt. loans taken to term etc...Hence why people go out and keep paying them for an eternity, rent a nicer place, buy a nicer car...keep up with them joneses right. Come on now. People just gotta chill with the debt numbers, if you didn't have to take the loan then you wouldn't.

I would throw it back on your folks. Say I want to do my best, I want to go out on my own for a while and earn it. FOR ME. If you don't want to support me that is fine, I will save you 100k or so and deal with the loans etc on my own. I just wish you were a bit more supportive, I want to go to the best school I can possibly get into. If I score well I will get $cholarship and save even more money. I could go to (insert school) and it would cost less than you paying full price at X/Y school. I still would love to come back here and practice with you both but you are making that less of a reality as each day passes and you continue to only see life through your own eyes.....

You are lucky in this sense. Even if your parents get all pissed, if you went to school wherever and took on debt and did it yourself do you HONESTLY think if you told them you would like to come home and practice with them they would say NO? bullshit, if they did then obviously they don't love you and you should probably continue down your path DOING YOU.

That is what this decision comes down to. DO YOU, make your own decision.I could write you another 10 chapters on how to navigate this situation. Do your thing though, stop doubting yourself. Just because 1 million people want to go about it the easy way whatever. THEY are NOT YOU. we all get dealt different hands, we can play them well or just fold. Sometimes you may both end up at the same table with the same hand, getting their in completely different ways. That is down the road a bit.

RIGHT NOW, you need to be present, stay focused and sort this out. Stop asking "others" and start asking yourself....fuck doubt, shit will destroy you. If you can make this very important decision with confidence I believe the rest of your life will be much easier to deal with. No regrets, pull the trigger and run with it, feel good about it.

Earn it, for you.

[Son of Cicero]

I really appreciate the insightful posts guys.

If I was 38 and wanting to start a family this would be easy, but at 22 this decision is quite difficult.

If you don't work at their firm, what do you want to do?

Because unless only if you are top 10% at a T1, you'll probably will you be working at someone else's firmdoing the same shit, but ALOT less.

Fixed.

I apologize if this is inaccurate, but after reading the OP's first post I imagine his parents are both alpha-douches based on (1) how they were able to be so successful despite practicing in a TTT market (I imagine they also attended TTTs, given that their advice is marked by an atypical readiness to dismiss all prestige considerations), and (2) how they give advice which would lead to failure and shame for most of us, but which happened to result in success for them due to their own peculiar qualities. Rather than pinpointing the real cause of their success, such persons - during rare moments of relative modesty (e.g., when they give advice to their children) - hold themselves out as just being very insightful, and they consequently consider themselves equipped to give general advice either without realizing that its applicability is premised on a person also having those uncommon qualities, or they make the dubious claim that such qualities were indeed essential elements in their own success stories, but that they can be easily acquired once they have been identified. (This same kind of thinking is exhibited by authors of those fratty how-to-pick-up-any-woman books.)

With the OP's best interests in mind, I recommend that he just does whatever makes his parents happy and that he discourage any extravagant purchases (excluding gifts intended for him) so that the nest egg keeps growing.

[zeth006]

Take a year off to live on your own for a while. Don't take any money from them. Just work and support yourself. Live independently. After a year if you've shown yourself that you can support yourself then you will have manned up. At that point you won't feel like you feel now about taking their offer. You won't feel like a little kid whose parents are making him dress up in a Easter Sunday suit for church when he wants to go play in the mud with his friends.

I'd hike the Appalachian trail if I were you. A nice long walk'll clear the head.

Serious post? or do you jest?

I meant it but you don't have to take it seriously. I've known people who have hiked the AT. I rode a bicycle across the continent. Many people have backpacked through Europe or lived in China for a year. These things are life changing experiences. Even for people who go back to doing the same thing when it is over - living with parents, hanging out with friends, etc - they are different. They are usually more confident, more open minded and better at planning and risk taking.

But you have to be the one to do it. Don't let your parents rent an apartment in China for you. Save up some money, read a few guide books or 'how to' books and get a little practice. Then embark on an adventure.

+9999.

Taking a major leap of faith by living abroad clears up your perspective and teaches you more about yourself on top of about the country you're living and working in. It takes you out of your psychological bubble and gives you much stronger sense of identity and independence. I don't mean to rag on OP, but these are some of the reasons law schools look for work experience and a diverse experience. Previous adversity experienced sometimes figures in too.

For an example, I personally worked abroad for a year and learned that I'm somewhat of a self-centered sonofabitch. But I also learned that I can't please everyone in terms of who I befriend and I'm much more rebellious and outspoken about workplace abuses than I'd previously imagined. Got me into a lot of trouble with the boss, but it gave me plenty of material for my personal statement.

If I were you, after dinner, I'd take a long walk through my neighborhood to stop and reflect upon my life in the past 10 years and ask myself whether it's worth it to go the easy route with the old folks or to take that leap across the canyon toward self-sufficiency. I don't know much about you, but the impression I get about you is that you're young and you have a yearning to live life out and have a blast before you become that alcoholic, suicidal, workaholic lawyer.

To quote a few people:

"In whatever you're doing, failure is an option, but fear is not."
- James Cameron

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain

[lawgod]

one thing to think about. Your parents sound kind of controlling. I don't really like the family dynamic. You should think about if you want to be beholden to them your whole life. What happens when you get fired because they don't like your new girlfriend. Think about other things they have tried to control.

[keg411]

OP, I think you made the right, mature decision. You have a guaranteed legal job and will have no debt. Racking up 200k to go to some non-national school in a market where you wouldn't have known if you wanted to stay in would have been a huge gamble. No sense in passing up security for a pipe dream. That would have been selfish, foolish, and very immature.