C/O 2017 Median LSAT/GPA/Class Size Forum

[FinalFour]

Applications for 170+ LSAT scores were up this past cycle. I know Columbia isn't considered a small school but law school classes aren't that big. It wouldn't take much for schools that barely missed a higher median to reach it. At small schools like Yale, Stanford, Chicago, etc. 20-30 people with higher scores could make a massive difference. Also, I remember Columbia students last year saying that the school thought they had a 172 until Stanford stole some people late off the wait list. So, all Columbia really had to do was have the same applicant pool numbers wise as last year (even though it was better this year I believe) and drop their gpa floor by .05 and they were going to pull a 172.

[pylon]

CLS
170/172/174
3.58/3.71/3.81
382

Link:
http://web.law.columbia.edu/admissions/ ... ss-profile

Wow, CLS jumping into that elusive 170+ for all quartiles. Only H and Y had it last year.

[Moneytrees]

It's seriously impressive. They could easily have a higher LSAT median than Stanford.

[HYSorBust3]

It's seriously impressive. They could easily have a higher LSAT median than Stanford.

CLS 3rd and Stanford 4th confirmed

In all seriousness though, yea it's impressive.

[Tiago Splitter]

CLS has had a higher LSAT median than Stanford for as far back as I can remember.

[HYSorBust3]

CLS has had a higher LSAT median than Stanford for as far back as I can remember.

It was tied last year

[FinalFour]

CLS has had a higher LSAT median than Stanford for as far back as I can remember.

+1. CLS had a freakishly low LSAT median last year, but CLS has always won that category. Columbia's LSAT median is always sky high and its GPA median is always really low.

[MidwestLifer]

Going against the grain here, but what's the analysis on what their new higher medians do for Hamilton/Butler distribution? Does the pool get smaller now that everyone with 173's isn't above 75th?

[Mack.Hambleton]

weird that 172 is now Chicago and NYU's 75th and Columbia's median. (unless they both improved numbers)

[Cradle6]

weird that 172 is now Chicago and NYU's 75th and Columbia's median. (unless they both improved numbers)

Is this bad news? Or is that an overreaction? (The CLS jump)

[Mack.Hambleton]

weird that 172 is now Chicago and NYU's 75th and Columbia's median. (unless they both improved numbers)

Is this bad news? Or is that an overreaction? (The CLS jump)

not bad just interesting trend

[ikethegremlin]

You have to figure that Columbia's excellent biglaw placement helps give it a boost when the economy is sucking.

If all I cared about was getting rid of epic amounts of debt after law school, which I'm sure features pretty large in people's minds, then Columbia with some money would be looking very attractive given that you barely seem to be giving away any advantage in terms of getting a well paying job to HYS, who aren't going to help you at all on the scholarship side of things.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole recession made some otherwise HYS bound kids see the value in Columbia with $$$

[FinalFour]

weird that 172 is now Chicago and NYU's 75th and Columbia's median. (unless they both improved numbers)

Is this bad news? Or is that an overreaction? (The CLS jump)

This is a massive overreaction. Columbia has always had a 172 basically except for last year, in which they came extremely close to having a 172. With regards to Columbia having their median be UChi's/NYU's 75th, keep in mind Chicago is targeting different numbers. This isn't weird at all nor does it show any sort of dominance by Columbia. CLS likes 172 3.7 numbers while Chicago likes 3.95 170 numbers. They aren't really shooting for the same thing. This is par for the course.

You have to figure that Columbia's excellent biglaw placement helps give it a boost when the economy is sucking.

If all I cared about was getting rid of epic amounts of debt after law school, which I'm sure features pretty large in people's minds, then Columbia with some money would be looking very attractive given that you barely seem to be giving away any advantage in terms of getting a well paying job to HYS, who aren't going to help you at all on the scholarship side of things.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole recession made some otherwise HYS bound kids see the value in Columbia with $$$

I think it's simpler than this. Columbia has the most recognizable name outside of HYS. All those bros who love prestige but can't get HYS would hands down have Columbia as their number 1 choice if cost is no factor. I chose a different school than Columbia because of $$$, but I sure as hell would have chose Columbia over my current choice if it was affordable. I don't think people are going "omg omg omg CLS placed 3 more percent into Big Law and Clerkships than Chicago!" Its the Ivy League prestige and NY location.

[ikethegremlin]

weird that 172 is now Chicago and NYU's 75th and Columbia's median. (unless they both improved numbers)

Is this bad news? Or is that an overreaction? (The CLS jump)

This is a massive overreaction. Columbia has always had a 172 basically except for last year, in which they came extremely close to having a 172. With regards to Columbia having their median be UChi's/NYU's 75th, keep in mind Chicago is targeting different numbers. This isn't weird at all nor does it show any sort of dominance by Columbia. CLS likes 172 3.7 numbers while Chicago likes 3.95 170 numbers. They aren't really shooting for the same thing. This is par for the course.

You have to figure that Columbia's excellent biglaw placement helps give it a boost when the economy is sucking.

If all I cared about was getting rid of epic amounts of debt after law school, which I'm sure features pretty large in people's minds, then Columbia with some money would be looking very attractive given that you barely seem to be giving away any advantage in terms of getting a well paying job to HYS, who aren't going to help you at all on the scholarship side of things.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the whole recession made some otherwise HYS bound kids see the value in Columbia with $$$

I think it's simpler than this. Columbia has the most recognizable name outside of HYS. All those bros who love prestige but can't get HYS would hands down have Columbia as their number 1 choice if cost is no factor. I chose a different school than Columbia because of $$$, but I sure as hell would have chose Columbia over my current choice if it was affordable. I don't think people are going "omg omg omg CLS placed 3 more percent into Big Law and Clerkships than Chicago!" Its the Ivy League prestige and NY location.

Definitely true. Ultimately, prestige is a proxy for the long-term value of your degree. When you are investing $100,000+ dollars into an education you want to make sure that in ten years time the name on the certificate still stands for the same things. That's why the T14 as an institution is so compelling, I think - you look at a graph like this:

http://7sage.com/top-law-school-rankings/

And what stands out is the consistency of the top schools compared to the clusterfuck below. When there is an economic squeeze you need to be even more certain that you are getting value from your investment, and those percentage points are important. I mean, the difference is pretty huge if you're choosing between say, Columbia and Berkeley or Cornell or even Penn:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=226198

Columbia is doing a great job right now of making it's JD look borderline recession proof, and that's really attractive when you don't know what kind of economy you'll be entering in 3 and a half years time.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Going against the grain here, but what's the analysis on what their new higher medians do for Hamilton/Butler distribution? Does the pool get smaller now that everyone with 173's isn't above 75th?

Hamilton analysis doesn't change. It's for truly stellar applicants, the early contenders for a SCOTUS clerkship. There are already many more qualified applicants than CLS can afford to give Hamiltons to. There are already a lot of applicants with stellar GPAs, LSATs and softs that don't get them, for reasons known only to CLS. You're talking 3.8+/176+ just to start the conversation, and then it'll be a crapshoot.

Butler analysis might change. It's to pull away surefire HYS admits and the right numbers can give you a very good chance of getting one. That conversation typically starts at 3.7+/174+, so the competition for that might get more intense as you introduce more 170+ scorers into the pot.

[ms9]

TLS seems to have really overestimated median/class size drops.

Not really. I think most expected numbers to plateau this year.

How much do you guys think the 10% rule is affecting these numbers?

It doesn't really mean anything. That was reported a little fantastically when it came out; it hardly affects anyone.

We wrote a blog for that, fyi. For some reason my blog posts over 10 in one month do not show up, so here is the link:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/questi ... dmissions/

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

This is a repost from last year, but...

School A: 3.57/3.75/3.88, 164/168/169, 34.2% Biglaw+FedClerk
School B: 3.48/3.63/3.80, 165/167/168, 61.6% Biglaw+FedClerk

Don't get the idea that medians are at all determinative by themselves.

[swordking90]

This is a repost from last year, but...

School A: 3.57/3.75/3.88, 164/168/169, 34.2% Biglaw+FedClerk
School B: 3.48/3.63/3.80, 165/167/168, 61.6% Biglaw+FedClerk

Don't get the idea that medians are at all determinative by themselves.

I'm guessing School A is UCLA and School B is Cornell?

[jk148706]

CLS

170/172/174
3.58/3.71/3.81

382

Impressive

[ms9]

Is the spreadsheet in the first post on page 1 the one getting updated? I'm having dinner Friday with the dean of the law school. I'd love to show him the spreadsheet so that he gives us his stats, but want to share the most updated one possible and I feel like there may be a link or something I am missing. Thanks!

[chuckbass]

Is the spreadsheet in the first post on page 1 the one getting updated? I'm having dinner Friday with the dean of the law school. I'd love to show him the spreadsheet so that he gives us his stats, but want to share the most updated one possible and I feel like there may be a link or something I am missing. Thanks!

Ugh get me WUSTL stats plz.

[Tiago Splitter]

This is a massive overreaction. Columbia has always had a 172 basically except for last year, in which they came extremely close to having a 172. With regards to Columbia having their median be UChi's/NYU's 75th, keep in mind Chicago is targeting different numbers. This isn't weird at all nor does it show any sort of dominance by Columbia. CLS likes 172 3.7 numbers while Chicago likes 3.95 170 numbers. They aren't really shooting for the same thing. This is par for the course.

I'd add that while Columbia cut its class size in recent years NYU stayed massive, which helps explain the discrepancy between the two.

[mann124]

Ugh get me WUSTL stats plz.

this.

[rebexness]

Is the spreadsheet in the first post on page 1 the one getting updated? I'm having dinner Friday with the dean of the law school. I'd love to show him the spreadsheet so that he gives us his stats, but want to share the most updated one possible and I feel like there may be a link or something I am missing. Thanks!

The one on the front page is the good one. I'll update it now! Sorry guys, busy week.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Is the spreadsheet in the first post on page 1 the one getting updated? I'm having dinner Friday with the dean of the law school. I'd love to show him the spreadsheet so that he gives us his stats, but want to share the most updated one possible and I feel like there may be a link or something I am missing. Thanks!

The one on the front page is the good one. I'll update it now! Sorry guys, busy week.

no excuses