Current/recent law students: are you happy or unhappy that you went and why? Forum

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I'm happy I went, but my circumstances are something of an anomaly. And that's why law school is really not a good option for 95% of people who consider it. Again, it would behoove everyone to remember the guidelines for going to law school:

1. Only go if you actually want to practice law--This one should be obvious because it's all over the place at this point, but law is NOT a backdoor into politics, or finance, or consulting, or whatever it is you people are trying to use it for. The risk is way too expensive for such a small chance at legitimate success.

2. Don't go unless you've planned on it for two years--Two years, that's my rule. In my experience, the people who decided very recently are the ones least likely to have really thought their career path through, least likely to have really done the requisite research, and least likely to actually be satisfied with what they wind up with. I was very lucky to have figured out that I wanted to be a lawyer when I was 14. But most people go into their junior and senior year of college with no clue what they want to do with their lives, and that's perfectly okay. Take the time to think about it. Take a low-stress job and tread water for a year or two. Law school will always be there, and you'll be in a better position to make a decision about it when you don't feel compelled to make a decision right away.

3. Don't go unless you've talked to ten students/lawyers (ideally a mix) and done 100 hours of research on the industry--This is basic due diligence. The number of students who come in not knowing things like what different types of lawyers do, what kind of jobs exist, how one obtains those jobs, etc. is staggering. At the end of that reserach, you should be able to answer questions like what kind of work is typically done in your target market, who are the top 25 firms in that market, which one of them had good years or bad years last year, etc.

4. Don't go unless you've gotten a 174 LSAT, are out of retakes, or have already gotten a full ride at your top choice--I've already covered before why a two or three point improvement on the LSAT (the average improvement) can be worth tens of thousands of dollars. Students leave that money on the table in staggering numbers because they (a) don't believe they can do better, which is bullshit or (b) don't wait to wait, which is a really dumb reason to give up $30k, or $50k, or $100k. So unless you're at the point where your LSAT is already helping you everywhere, do everything you can to maximize it. The satisfaction rate for those that do is about 99.9%.

5. 90% of the time, the cheapest school is the best option--As I've said before, pretty much anyone can get a full ride. There's no reason you can't get a full ride, because WUSTL, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan State, Indiana, Villanova, Cardozo, UConn, Arizona, and probably a few more I've forgotten will give them stip-free to just about anyone with numbers above their medians (obviously if you have multiple stip-free full rides, pick your favorite). Only splitters, and only under some circumstances, can find a calculated risk at a discounted T14 a better choice than a full ride somewhere. But for most people, being debt-free in a small firm in a lower COL market is a wildly underrated outcome by most prospective students, who don't really get that debt not only limits your possibility, but has a serious psychological weight that takes a very long time to escape.

[zot1]

Surely you realize that you can't graduate law school and immediately become a senator, right?

ACLU mostly hires attorneys and those jobs are very hard to get.

If you want to get into politics, go work for a politician.

[lunixer]

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[zot1]

That's okay. Maybe I got confused about what you want. An attorney advising a senator however local is still working as an attorney.

A policymaker does not have to be an attorney.

If you don't want to work as an attorney, then you wouldn't want to work as an attorney for a senator.

[Loquitur Res]

I'm a current student and personally really glad I chose to go to law school. I would make the decision again in a heart beat. Like some others have said, my circumstances where quite unique. I was 5-10 years out of undergrad. I had a liberal arts degree from a shitty local school. I was working in a small start-up which never really took off, which amounts to killing myself to make 30k a year. On top of working 50-70 hours a week to live check to check there was the psychological stress of working for a company that was always strained financially. so for the last year or so I worked there I thought each paycheck could have been my last. Lots of paychecks were late. So much in this little company depended on me that I couldn't take vacations, could barely get a day off on the weekends.

I knew I always wanted to go back and get a better education. I loved the idea of being a lawyer, but I didn't think I could do it. I didn't know any lawyers and none of my friends went do grad school. Some didn't finish college. But I began dating a girl whose parents are lawyers and over time I began to realize that law school is something I could actually do, not just something I see on TV.

I am risk adverse, but I ended up getting several full rides to T2 schools in my area. I took the jump and enrolled in the one with the best job numbers (mid to high 60s FT-JD Employment Percentage) and finished my first semester in the top 5 in my class. I feel like I went from being in a huge rut to empowering myself and breathing new hope into my life. I also love the school. I know its still early, but I'm really enjoying it.

Much of the advice on TLS is good. But it didn't necessarily apply to me. I will finish up with less than 60K in debt (all cost of living). I am not going into it looking for a 160K job, 50K starting would be a big jump from what I was making, so I think my expectations are more grounded than most of my classmates. I don't think I'm incurring the same opportunity costs as other TLSers. My job was killing me and my only real lateral move was into bar tending or waiting tables.

So if you have a shitty liberal arts degree, can get a full ride or close to it to T2 or better, have no other serious job prospects, and really want to be a lawyer I would say give it a shot.

[ccmart]

If you really want the H name there are other grad schools that take one year and that could get you into education or policy. Law school is just a long, expensive 3 years to get into a job that will be largely similar to the job you have now. There are interesting and worthwhile parts of law school, but many of them exist (but better and more cheaply) in other graduate programs.

What are some other graduate programs that I should look into if I am interested in the law but not necessarily in practicing law? I just graduated from undergrad and am taking some time off for work experience, etc. and like OP I don't have a burning desire to be a lawyer.

[zot1]

If you really want the H name there are other grad schools that take one year and that could get you into education or policy. Law school is just a long, expensive 3 years to get into a job that will be largely similar to the job you have now. There are interesting and worthwhile parts of law school, but many of them exist (but better and more cheaply) in other graduate programs.

What are some other graduate programs that I should look into if I am interested in the law but not necessarily in practicing law? I just graduated from undergrad and am taking some time off for work experience, etc. and like OP I don't have a burning desire to be a lawyer.

Honestly, what you really want to do is make a list of careers that interest you. Then contact people in those careers and ask them out for coffee. To those who answer, go and ask them every question you can about what they do, they're day to day, and how they got there. If possible, ask if you can shadow them for a day. This is the best way to understand what would be a good fit for you.

Schools don't really show you what a profession is like unless you want to be an academic.

[esther0123]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo. The key is whether you actually want to practice law, period. I think comparing different types of career based on salary, work hours, etc. is not a helpful exercise because you could've always done something else. If you just want to make a ton of money, want better lifestyle, etc. then law is obviously not the best career choice; so I think it's important to ask yourself -- do you like law? do you want to be a lawyer? (I realize this is hard to do without actually having been to law school or practicing).

If you want to practice law, then H does give you a significant advantage over almost all other law schools, except for maybe Y. I can't speak for the longterm outlook on legal career for myself or any of my peers, because it's highly individualized -- I suspect a good chunk of my peers will leave law, either because the lifestyle of big law (where most of us are going) or the actual law itself is not a good fit for their personality. But this is a risk you run in various other professions, especially ones with demanding hours (and correspondingly high salary). This is however not a problem with H. I think H's name still holds a lot of value in the legal market, having seen the result of some of my friend's clerkship cycle and my OCI outcome despite unimpressive grades.

I think the mistake is to go to H thinking that it will solve all career problems and guarantee long-term success. H does, however, provide you with the most leverage that a school can give you within the legal field.

Edit: I think it's also important to note some personal caveats... I will be finishing law school with about ~130-150K debt, unmarried, and actually like law.

[jbagelboy]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo. The key is whether you actually want to practice law, period. I think comparing different types of career based on salary, work hours, etc. is not a helpful exercise because you could've always done something else. If you just want to make a ton of money, want better lifestyle, etc. then law is obviously not the best career choice; so I think it's important to ask yourself -- do you like law? do you want to be a lawyer? (I realize this is hard to do without actually having been to law school or practicing).

If you want to practice law, then H does give you a significant advantage over almost all other law schools, except for maybe Y. I can't speak for the longterm outlook on legal career for myself or any of my peers, because it's highly individualized -- I suspect a good chunk of my peers will leave law, either because the lifestyle of big law (where most of us are going) or the actual law itself is not a good fit for their personality. But this is a risk you run in various other professions, especially ones with demanding hours (and correspondingly high salary). This is however not a problem with H. I think H's name still holds a lot of value in the legal market, having seen the result of some of my friend's clerkship cycle and my OCI outcome despite unimpressive grades.

I think the mistake is to go to H thinking that it will solve all career problems and guarantee long-term success. H does, however, provide you with the most leverage that a school can give you within the legal field.

Edit: I think it's also important to note some personal caveats... I will be finishing law school with about ~130-150K debt, unmarried, and actually like law.

well the stuff about Harvard is ridiculous here. that's no different than the experience or career outlook at other top schools.

But the point about the importance of actually wanting to be a lawyer is true and important.

[esther0123]

well the stuff about Harvard is ridiculous here. that's no different than the experience or career outlook at other top schools.

But the point about the importance of actually wanting to be a lawyer is true and important.

To clarify, I meant that H provides you with more opportunity than someone of the similar class rank in a (much?) lower ranked school, e.g. low end of T14. Median at H and median at Georgetown have different career opportunities starting out. If you're a top 10% student at CCN v. H, then the opportunities are much similar, I'd say. Edit: But banking that you'll end up as 10% (or even top 25%) at a top school is a risky bet.

[zot1]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo.

Most of the people commenting are practicing lawyers. What do you think we are missing out on?

[esther0123]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo.

Most of the people commenting are practicing lawyers. What do you think we are missing out on?

The OP asked for the perspective of current or recent law students. I thought I qualified.

[smaug]

luxiner is a good troll

[zot1]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo.

Most of the people commenting are practicing lawyers. What do you think we are missing out on?

The OP asked for the perspective of current or recent law students. I thought I qualified.

Please reread what you said and then my comment. Nothing I said has anything to do with you commenting or your qualifications.

[esther0123]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo.

Most of the people commenting are practicing lawyers. What do you think we are missing out on?

The OP asked for the perspective of current or recent law students. I thought I qualified.

Please reread what you said and then my comment. Nothing I said has anything to do with you commenting or your qualifications.

Oh I misread your comment. I thought it was fomo because some commenter mentioned that they regret going because of the "other things" that they (currently practicing attorney) now realize that they could've been or would've much rather been. That change of heart is not something that one can easily predict, but that is "fomo," no? And again, that's not a problem with the law school itself -- it's the change in your outlook on life. Something you sadly can't really predict. So maybe the best the OP can do is take the best guess as to whether being a lawyer is something they want to do, especially given their great options in law school.

[zot1]

Currently a 2L at H, median-slightly above average, with a good big law for summer associate. I'm pretty surprised at the overall pessimism of the board and the value of H, and I think this is a case of fomo.

Most of the people commenting are practicing lawyers. What do you think we are missing out on?

The OP asked for the perspective of current or recent law students. I thought I qualified.

Please reread what you said and then my comment. Nothing I said has anything to do with you commenting or your qualifications.

Oh I misread your comment. I thought it was fomo because some commenter mentioned that they regret going because of the "other things" that they (currently practicing attorney) now realize that they could've been or would've much rather been. That change of heart is not something that one can easily predict, but that is "fomo," no? And again, that's not a problem with the law school itself -- it's the change in your outlook on life. Something you sadly can't really predict. So maybe the best the OP can do is take the best guess as to whether being a lawyer is something they want to do, especially given their great options in law school.

I see what you mean.

I think it's common to have a "grass is greener on the other side mentality." However, I think a lot of people are telling OP not to go to law school because he doesn't actually want to be a lawyer. The law is bad as it is for a lot of lawyers. It'll suck a lot more if you don't even want to be one but have to because the debt will keep you tied to a legal job.

[esther0123]

I see what you mean.

I think it's common to have a "grass is greener on the other side mentality." However, I think a lot of people are telling OP not to go to law school because he doesn't actually want to be a lawyer. The law is bad as it is for a lot of lawyers. It'll suck a lot more if you don't even want to be one but have to because the debt will keep you tied to a legal job.

Yeah, I would agree with that too. If the OP is going to law school or H because of perceived mystique or prestige, I think he will be disappointed. Within law, H is prestigious, but that prestige is only useful in so far as it gets you the interview or act as a buffer against otherwise mediocre grades. At the top end of Biglaw (should that be his goal), being from H won't make you stand out in anyway. So I think the OP should temper his expectation with respect to law and H... is what I tried to convey. (Edit: but I still think H is a great bet IF you want to do law)

[lunixer]

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[zot1]

luxiner is a good troll

What makes you think I'm trolling? I am an anxiety-ridden 0L trying to decide whether I should do what I want to do, and stay with my awesome job in the awesome city where I live, or do what every single important person in my life wants me to do (and what I have been working towards over 1000 hours of LSAT prep/130 tests and $10,000 of law school stuff) and go to Harvard. Is that somehow a problem?

If they're so important they would only want you to be happy regardless of what you do for a living.

[smaug]

luxiner is a good troll

What makes you think I'm trolling? I am an anxiety-ridden 0L trying to decide whether I should do what I want to do, and stay with my awesome job in the awesome city where I live, or do what every single important person in my life wants me to do (and what I have been working towards over 1000 hours of LSAT prep/130 tests and $10,000 of law school stuff) and go to Harvard. Is that somehow a problem?

stuff like the bolded

i'm ok with engaging trolls but you need to keep putting content out like the above

so, for example, why do you think you'll be able to get a clerkship if you're so dumb that you had to study for the LSAT for 1000 hours

[lunixer]

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[smaug]

luxiner is a good troll

What makes you think I'm trolling? I am an anxiety-ridden 0L trying to decide whether I should do what I want to do, and stay with my awesome job in the awesome city where I live, or do what every single important person in my life wants me to do (and what I have been working towards over 1000 hours of LSAT prep/130 tests and $10,000 of law school stuff) and go to Harvard. Is that somehow a problem?

stuff like the bolded

i'm ok with engaging trolls but you need to keep putting content out like the above

so, for example, why do you think you'll be able to get a clerkship if you're so dumb that you had to study for the LSAT for 1000 hours

Because I work hard. Duh.

roflmao

[zot1]

But $10,000 tho? In what?

[smaug]

But $10,000 tho? In what?

it's expensive to work hard, except when you're in law school

op is very frugal

[lunixer]

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