Saying "No" to this Cycle: Collected Stories Forum

Marshmallow · Post by **Marshmallow** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:59 pm

gatz77 wrote:Feels better to see that I am not alone in this situation. Long rant ahead. I had a great cycle, got into several T10s with money, but I will still be in 180k to 210k in debt... I am considering not going to law school at all and taking my life in a different direction. I think being so focused on the LSAT and obsessing over X school's placement numbers and stuff like that that I kind of lost sight on what my life would be like with that kind of debt load even if I did come out on top in law school. I don't know about you guys, but my one fear is that I don't exactly have a great alternative option at the moment. My mistake was putting all my eggs in this one law basket, and now I am not too sure what to do... And of course there is the nagging feeling I get when I think of all the time I spent to get to this point, to have these options of enrolling at top 10 and 14 law schools... How happy my friends and my family were when they heard the news. If I turn my back on LS now, it will be a disappointment to them, but it will also be a great personal disappoint to me. I don't know. People I try to talk to don't really seem to understand. They tell me what a great opportunity this is. Once in a lifetime they say. I don't know if turning back is a huge mistake or not. Will it be something that I look back on years down the line and feel relieved about? Or am I gonna seppuku myself over this... I've really been torn, and it just feels shitty. I am still leaning on not going, but yeah it just really sucks. Sorry about the rant.

hey gatz, you make some points I REALLLLLY relate to, as do many people in this thread. Can I ask... are you interested in PI? Because that's been my thing. I'm pretty opposed to biglaw, and the debt is like... whoa. I have been a paralegal for a few years, and I really feel like I could make law school work for me, and that's what has made this decision difficult (and all the disappointment from others, but this is a clear second.) But, do I need to go to law school to do what I love to do? I'm not sure right now, but I sure as heck want to figure that out before committing the time and money. Personally, I've got a few job applications out for work I'd be VERY interested in learning more about, and am planning to start a new volunteer gig in the near future as well, all in an attempt to narrow down my interests. I realize now that this is what I should have done a year and a half ago instead of studying for the LSAT, but then again, I wasn't in the same mental state back then as I am now. And who knows what will happen. Personally, I think I'll reapply in a year or two.

Nomo · Post by **Nomo** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:23 pm

gatz77 wrote:Feels better to see that I am not alone in this situation. Long rant ahead. I had a great cycle, got into several T10s with money, but I will still be in 180k to 210k in debt... I am considering not going to law school at all and taking my life in a different direction. I think being so focused on the LSAT and obsessing over X school's placement numbers and stuff like that that I kind of lost sight on what my life would be like with that kind of debt load even if I did come out on top in law school. I don't know about you guys, but my one fear is that I don't exactly have a great alternative option at the moment. My mistake was putting all my eggs in this one law basket, and now I am not too sure what to do... And of course there is the nagging feeling I get when I think of all the time I spent to get to this point, to have these options of enrolling at top 10 and 14 law schools... How happy my friends and my family were when they heard the news. If I turn my back on LS now, it will be a disappointment to them, but it will also be a great personal disappoint to me. I don't know. People I try to talk to don't really seem to understand. They tell me what a great opportunity this is. Once in a lifetime they say. I don't know if turning back is a huge mistake or not. Will it be something that I look back on years down the line and feel relieved about? Or am I gonna seppuku myself over this... I've really been torn, and it just feels shitty. I am still leaning on not going, but yeah it just really sucks. Sorry about the rant.

Its not a once in a lifetime opportunity. Teaching english in Korea, joining the peace corps, or working on a ranch in Montana might be once in a lifetime opportunities. A Rhoades scholarship is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity. Law School doesn't go away next year or the year after, or the year after, etc. You can explore pretty much anything you want before you go to law school - but once you attend you've got at least a decade or two where you're very tied down. Go another direction. You don't need a great alternative. Take what work you can find it could even be Americorps. Just don't jump into law school or any grad school if you're not totally sure you're ready.

gatz77 · Post by **gatz77** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:48 pm

Marshmallow, I was not aiming for PI. I was going for the big firms and stuff, and now I am not sure if it's worth it... And again it's not like I have some great lucrative option besides it though. But that debt is just too much for me... Nomo, the thing is I am already a few years out of UG. Working a dead end job was what motivated me in the first place to even go for LS. But damn I didn't think things through. About the debt. About the jobs I'd get. About the lifestyle that it would require. All that crap and risk for a chance at returning to net worth zero. And that's if I am lucky. I prefer not to go, but it's scary to think about where I should turn to now. Part of me feels like I would be giving up a great opportunity. Part of me feels like I am signing up for a life of indentured servitude. Goddamn FML.

BankruptMe · Post by **BankruptMe** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:46 pm

My parents are trying to push me into school, with their boomer mentality lol.

"ITS A PROFESSION" they say. You can do more than just law. Blah Blah Blah.

Thinking about applying to a Enterprise Mgmt Trainee Job (They take all majors in case any one is looking for a job). Honestly, I would rather be a struggling solo practitioner though :/. They start at 25,000 - 30,000 ...My parents told me, you didn't take all of those loans out to rent cars for a living...lol I could make the same argument after law school if I end up in a non-preferred job.

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:54 pm

BankruptMe wrote:My parents are trying to push me into school, with their boomer mentality lol.

"ITS A PROFESSION" they say. You can do more than just law. Blah Blah Blah.

Thinking about applying to a Enterprise Mgmt Trainee Job (They take all majors in case any one is looking for a job). Honestly, I would rather be a struggling solo practitioner though :/. They start at 25,000 - 30,000 ...My parents told me, you didn't take all of those loans out to rent cars for a living...lol I could make the same argument after law school if I end up in a non-preferred job.

I would caution you to do your homework re: the Enterprise gig. That money is peanuts, and you'll work a LOT of hours (including weekends). There's a reason why the turnover in those gigs is extremely high. I once looked into it when I was in a desperately unemployed state - talked to some formers and did some Googling. It was enough to scare me away.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:54 pm

Ughhh.....

I was in the car today with an attorney who graduated last year at a TTT and is now at a JD-advantage job...
"So are you ready for your LSAT in June?"
"I feel okay. I'll probably delay until at least September though. I am close to where I want to be but I really need to get into the mid 170s consistently to develop my confidence before I go into the real thing though"
"If you delayed, you would be stupid. Just get a score! Schools don't care. You're going to do better than you think you are."

....yea ummmm okay.

Nonconsecutive · Post by **Nonconsecutive** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:51 pm

WaltGrace83 wrote:Ughhh.....

I was in the car today with an attorney who graduated last year at a TTT and is now at a JD-advantage job...
"So are you ready for your LSAT in June?"
"I feel okay. I'll probably delay until at least September though. I am close to where I want to be but I really need to get into the mid 170s consistently to develop my confidence before I go into the real thing though"
"If you delayed, you would be stupid. Just get a score! Schools don't care. You're going to do better than you think you are."

....yea ummmm okay.

vicpin5190 · Post by **vicpin5190** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:48 pm

Post removed.

stewart23 · Post by **stewart23** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:13 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:I just said no. Felt pretty bad doing it, but I guess now it's time to move on and do the TLS shuffle (retake).

I've never felt shittier clicking send though.

It was a tough call, but I believe it was the right one. For those of you who are in your early to mid-20's I can attest to the fact that age does not impact your ability to be admitted and/or receive scholarships at T-10 schools. At 33, I am excited by the opportunities that I've been offered by some good schools, but part of me would like to sit out a cycle and get a better LSAT score. I have been teaching in Colorado for years and it's been great. Every day I agonize over leaving behind an enjoyable, albeit poor, life in a great state. At my age, I think it is time to get on with it, but if I were in my early to mid-twenties, I see little reason why I would regret spending at least a year improving my LSAT score and improving my resume. I'm sure it was a tough decision, but I bet you'll be glad you made it.

Marshmallow · Post by **Marshmallow** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:18 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:I just said no. Felt pretty bad doing it, but I guess now it's time to move on and do the TLS shuffle (retake).

I've never felt shittier clicking send though.

Hi vicpin, I know your situation is a little different than just a simple withdrawal, but congrats on doing what's right for you. I just sent in my first withdrawal. This part of the process is going to be like ripping off band-aids.

tho · Post by **tho** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:43 pm

Wait-listed at UVA and I didn't apply broadly enough with a 167 and 4.0. I am retaking in June and October and will blanket T-14 next semester. Itll be worth it. I hope.

n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t · Post by **n1o2c3a4c5h6e7t** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:51 pm

tho wrote:Wait-listed at UVA and I didn't apply broadly enough with a 167 and 4.0. I am retaking in June and October and will blanket T-14 next semester. Itll be worth it. I hope.

Few more points and enjoy HYS. Good move.

bound · Post by **bound** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:57 pm

Battling this decision sooooo hard.

vicpin5190 · Post by **vicpin5190** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:09 pm

Post removed.

bloomingtea · Post by **bloomingtea** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:20 pm

Not to derail the flow of this thread, but I'm addressing marshmallow or anyone interested in PI.

@Marshmallow: If you're really interested in PI, I really think you should not opt out this year. You have been accepted to great schools, with and without scholarships. What you should do is look at the schools LRAP programs for PI students. I know that Berkeley and UCI have some amazing LRAP programs concerning this matter. Something along the lines of 10 years in PI on IBR and your loans are forgiven, which shouldn't sound disconcerting to you since you like PI work. Schools also agree to pay your loans for you if you make below a certain amount. You really have minimal risk.

What I figured out is that the reason many schools charge exorbitant amounts for tuition is to milk funds from the government, not necessarily you. I'm sure if you think about it you'll understand why.

wealtheow · Post by **wealtheow** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:54 pm

cron1834 wrote:
BankruptMe wrote:My parents are trying to push me into school, with their boomer mentality lol.

"ITS A PROFESSION" they say. You can do more than just law. Blah Blah Blah.

Thinking about applying to a Enterprise Mgmt Trainee Job (They take all majors in case any one is looking for a job). Honestly, I would rather be a struggling solo practitioner though :/. They start at 25,000 - 30,000 ...My parents told me, you didn't take all of those loans out to rent cars for a living...lol I could make the same argument after law school if I end up in a non-preferred job.
I would caution you to do your homework re: the Enterprise gig. That money is peanuts, and you'll work a LOT of hours (including weekends). There's a reason why the turnover in those gigs is extremely high. I once looked into it when I was in a desperately unemployed state - talked to some formers and did some Googling. It was enough to scare me away.

Yeah hopping on this because Enterprise. Please don't. Boyfriend has been working there since graduation... Just don't. No work-life balance, underpaid, overworked, he has to go in at six am to clean cars, can never get home before eight pm, has to call the police to arrest crazy people because they try to steal the cars...don't do this to to yourself (or your loved ones)

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:51 am

Literally saw an Enterprise dude in a suit and tie vacuuming out a car today at about 9am. I walk to work, and an Enterprise is on my route. I've read about that exact thing online, but it's sad to see it.

WaltGrace83 · Post by **WaltGrace83** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:20 am

cron1834 wrote:Literally saw an Enterprise dude in a suit and tie vacuuming out a car today at about 9am. I walk to work, and an Enterprise is on my route. I've read about that exact thing online, but it's sad to see it.

I heard that they have to WASH cars in suits too. That is like blasphemy.

wealtheow · Post by **wealtheow** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:47 am

WaltGrace83 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:Literally saw an Enterprise dude in a suit and tie vacuuming out a car today at about 9am. I walk to work, and an Enterprise is on my route. I've read about that exact thing online, but it's sad to see it.
I heard that they have to WASH cars in suits too. That is like blasphemy.

it's true. they make them wear them while they do it, they get written up otherwise. so that means constantly having to buy new suits and shirts.

sorry to derail the thread. very sore subject for me. he's just waiting for me to pick a school so he can quit!

cron1834 · Post by **cron1834** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:54 pm

I also apologize for derailing, but as with wealtheow, I just couldn't let that go. Feel free to say no to this cycle, just not for THAT job

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:56 pm

Maybe checking in

jk148706 · Post by **jk148706** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:42 am

james.bungles wrote:Maybe checking in

W a Dillard? Ballsy move, but u gotta do what's best for u.

vicpin5190 · Post by **vicpin5190** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:14 pm

Post removed.

Mack.Hambleton · Post by **Mack.Hambleton** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:14 pm

francesfarmer · Post by **francesfarmer** » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:20 pm

james.bungles wrote:
jk148706 wrote:
james.bungles wrote:Maybe checking in
W a Dillard? Ballsy move, but u gotta do what's best for u.
yeah its not that I have bad options this cycle, but I feel like being K-JD (and applying at deadlines/using Feb take) really hurt my apps, and apparently hurts in OCI too. Since I'm graduating in three years I feel like taking a year off from school is what I should be doing, so barring big money at CCNP (or S) I think it might be worth it to reapply.

0L, five years out of UG, chiming in to say I graduated in three years as well and I cannot imagine having gone to law school as a 20 year old. Acceptances and $$$ will be there for you in a few years if you choose to wait!